Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[mojo pixy]

Why is there so much casual antisemitism on this thread?

Because it's a thread about Israel.

 

[ID47]

Why is there so much casual antisemitism on this thread?

Verse from the Quran got to you?

 

[mojo pixy]

It's those sneaky old zionists, they keep using their trickery to trap good people into saying bad things

 

[ID47]

Because it's a thread about Israel.

Wrong, it is a thread about Israel and Palestine.

 

[mojo pixy]

Wrong, it is a thread about Israel and Palestine.

Israel and Hamas in fact.

I'm sure the posting of Koran verses without translation is meant as a gesture of peace.

 

[Dystopiary]

Why is there so much casual antisemitism on this thread?

Partly cos every time it's been called out, that's been dismissed with accusations of denying the atrocities of the Israeli government and the IDF, and distracting from the thread.

 

[Gramsci]

If that's addressed to me, I'm gonna put my hand up and say that i genuinely don't know. All that I can say is that tens of thousands of Palestinians have died and their homes destroyed as a result of the Oct 7th military decision made by their political leaders and Iran.

Press Release: Public Opinion Poll No (93) | PCPSR

www.pcpsr.org

Thought I see if any new polls out. This is from September. Latest poll of Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza. To get some idea what ordinary Palestinians think on this.

Not having a go at you here. Just your post made me wonder if any more recent polls of what ordinary Palestinians think

The only place the pollsters could not get to is North Gaza

From the summary of findings.

While a majority continues to view Hamas’ decision to carry out the October 7 attack as “correct,” that majority is now smaller than it has been since the first poll, indeed becoming a minority in the Gaza Strip. The fears of the war finally reaching the West Bank, the worsening conditions in the Gaza Strip, with declining hopes for a quick ceasefire might have contributed to this and similar findings in this poll, many of which were evident in our previous poll three months ago.

Despite the declining favorability of October 7, the majority of the public continues to believes the attack and the following war have placed the Palestinian issue at the center of global attention.

findings show that more than two thirds of the Palestinians believe that the attack has put the Palestinian issue at the center of attention and eliminated years of neglect at the regional and international levels.

There is a lot in the survey, But looking at these results majority of Palestinians supported the Hamas attack. Even if they don't support Hamas specifically.

On other regional actors:

Top of list of regional actors who got thumbs up from Palestinians is Yemen. 69 percent. Second is Hezbollah with 44 percent. Iran has lost some support due to it not retaliating enough over assassination of Hamas leader.

Internationally China came out top in the poll.

Support for armed struggle has dropped but still at 48 percent.

The other bits of survey I have read say Two State solution with Israel in the pre 67 borders gets highest support.

Palestinians want a unity government of all the factions

If Israel or some western countries think Hamas must not have a future after this present war then that's not what Palestinians think. Both Fatah and Hamas still have support from majority of Palestinians.

The favourite for leader is the imprisoned Marwan Barghouti.


So looks to me from the poll that Palestinians want own State, support unity government and talks but also armed struggle.

They also want military support from outside. Hence high poll for Yemen

And they still feel the Hamas attack was justified.

The pollsters make clear that support for military action/ armed struggle does not mean that those who support it are all Islamist

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Krakalak.

 

[tim]

Verse from the Quran got to you?

No, the "Chosen People" trope

 

[mojo pixy]

it was an analysis based on quotes from Israeli military

No it wasn't.

It does however rely for impact on quotes from the guy who runs this. So straight away I know it's not politically serious.

But further, it's actually just a new face of anti-semitism. Here's how the zionists aim to take over the whole middle east. Couched in academic language and presented as something rigorous and objective, but actually no more than some reckons pinned together by religious prejudice.

 

[Duncan2]

No, the "Chosen People" trope

Poraic I Briens report from the encampment of settlers waiting with their children to move into the Gaza Strip was quite something

 

[bimble]

For fucks sake the state of this thread, this website.

 

[Duncan2]

For fucks sake the state of this thread, this website.

Not to mention Gaza

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

State of the world and all because some dicks want to pretend to be the chosen people.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

For fucks sake the state of this thread, this website.

Hello stranger!

Day after I book a first class flight and look who's back...

Some threads will always be a cesspool, trans/Israel etc. are just awful, ignore them, some other bits are excellent. Hope you're well?

 

[bimble]

Evening Bahnhof Strasse. I’ll proby bugger off for another year or so now, used to think of this place as a sort of pub with people in that I’d at least enjoy arguing with but you know where I am get the pyjamas .

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I quoted a relevant part of the Koran to you in Arabic and you pissed your pants you spoilt entitled middle class fucking babies.

 

[dylanredefined]

TBF that assumes that the other side is rational and that it wouldnt do bad things unless provoked.

October 7th was a massacre of many innocent people but, in addition to the past 75 years, it came after ten months of the Israeli regime both demonstrating that it paid no heed to any agreements it signed with anyone else and that it had clear designs on ending the status quo protecting al-Aqsa. Many people (including Biden, the Jordanians, Egyptians and Fatah) tried to head this off by bringing some small crumb of trust back but they were all ignored, or belittled and ignored and so we ended up where we are now.

Neither side is rational ,but giving them an excuse to flatten gaza wasn't smart. Can't have your own state if Palestinians cease to exist.

 

[AverageJoe]

Oof. Leaked documents apparently show that the US knows Israel is a Nuclear Nation.

US investigating apparent leak of Israeli plan to attack Iran

The documents are said to describe satellite imagery showing Israel moving military assets.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bimble]

State of the world and all because some dicks want to pretend to be the chosen people.

.

 

[teqniq]

Oof. Leaked documents apparently show that the US knows Israel is a Nuclear Nation.

Is Musk's $1m-a-day cash giveaway to US voters legal?

Two voters have already picked up their lottery-style cheques for a million dollars from Elon Musk.

www.bbc.co.uk

Wrong page?

 

[teqniq]

Evening Bahnhof Strasse. I’ll proby bugger off for another year or so now, used to think of this place as a sort of pub with people in that I’d at least enjoy arguing with but you know where I am get the pyjamas .

Um welcome back? Would be nice if you decided to stay as I liked a lot of your posts.

 

[tim]

Um welcome back? Would be nice if you decided to stay as I liked a lot of your posts.

Yes, I miss your input too.

 

[LDC]

Hello stranger!

Day after I book a first class flight and look who's back...

Some threads will always be a cesspool, trans/Israel etc. are just awful, ignore them, some other bits are excellent. Hope you're well?

Yup, this thread and the anti-semitism on it, and tolerance and excusing of it (often from people I really am surprised about) is the main reason I'm not on here much at all anymore. Mix that in with a few clear loons on the topic and the terrible politics of some other people on this issue and it makes it a car crash of a thread.

Fucking disgusting tbh.

Good work by some trying to bring better politics, sense, and challenging the anti-semitism.

 

[ID47]

Israel and Hamas in fact.

I'm sure the posting of Koran verses without translation is meant as a gesture of peace.

You are seriously saying that when you yourself have untranslated Hebrew as part of your avatar and username? What is it the Christians say about something blocking their vision...

 

[bimble]

really didn’t mean to log in, do miss people and stuff, but things like that post I quoted above, people being fine with it, just means I can’t hang out in this pub.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

.

So you do believe you are and we ought not question that?

.

funny how you did reappear until the Koran was quoted. And not only that a quite pertinent part of the Koran too.
Nice pictures. Used to use the same methods.

 

[brogdale]

Press Release: Public Opinion Poll No (93) | PCPSR

www.pcpsr.org

Thought I see if any new polls out. This is from September. Latest poll of Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza. To get some idea what ordinary Palestinians think on this.

Not having a go at you here. Just your post made me wonder if any more recent polls of what ordinary Palestinians think

The only place the pollsters could not get to is North Gaza

From the summary of findings.






There is a lot in the survey, But looking at these results majority of Palestinians supported the Hamas attack. Even if they don't support Hamas specifically.

On other regional actors:

Top of list of regional actors who got thumbs up from Palestinians is Yemen. 69 percent. Second is Hezbollah with 44 percent. Iran has lost some support due to it not retaliating enough over assassination of Hamas leader.

Internationally China came out top in the poll.

Support for armed struggle has dropped but still at 48 percent.

The other bits of survey I have read say Two State solution with Israel in the pre 67 borders gets highest support.

Palestinians want a unity government of all the factions

If Israel or some western countries think Hamas must not have a future after this present war then that's not what Palestinians think. Both Fatah and Hamas still have support from majority of Palestinians.

The favourite for leader is the imprisoned Marwan Barghouti.


So looks to me from the poll that Palestinians want own State, support unity government and talks but also armed struggle.

They also want military support from outside. Hence high poll for Yemen

And they still feel the Hamas attack was justified.

The pollsters make clear that support for military action/ armed struggle does not mean that those who support it are all Islamist

Well, I'm genuinely in awe of folk who can conduct polling in Gaza. That said, I don't think we need pollsters to tell us that the last year has been a complete disaster for the people of the strip.

If we are able to accept that polling under such circumstances can be valid, it shows, that 7 weeks ago only 39% of the 410 Gaza respondents thought that Hamas had been right* to launch an attack on Israel. Unsurprisingly this represented a considerable fall of support over time.

I'd imagine that figure would be lower now and particularly if the pollsters had been able to gauge sentiment in the (more) active war zones.

* An important caveat came with that finding:

It is important to note that support for this attack does not necessarily mean support for Hamas and does not mean support for any killings or atrocities committed against civilians. Indeed, almost 90% of the public believes Hamas men did not commit the atrocities depicted in videos taken on that day.

Likewise, I'm not having a go here, but nothing in that linked piece changes my mind one bit, tbh.

 

[AverageJoe]

Wrong page?

My bad. Have edited

 

[Johnny Vodka]

For those who missed it, report on the settlers ready to move into the Gaza strip (and their links to the Israeli government).

Hardline Israeli settlers gather to plan future homes in Gaza strip

Strikes in Northern Gaza were watched by a group of hardline Israeli settlers, gathered for a two-day event where they drew up plans for their future homes in the Gaza strip.

www.channel4.com