Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
More like HannaBarbara with the same old lazy dismissals time and time again.
No imagination.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
No imagination.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Always, the key.
It's not as though entering, armed, into settlements and killing residents and taking others prisoner and back to another country is a new tactic in the region.
Only time will tell how strategically important October 7th will be, but on any human metric it looks like a colossal misjudgement and (further) disaster for the Palestinian people.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
If that's addressed to me, I'm gonna put my hand up and say that i genuinely don't know. All that I can say is that tens of thousands of Palestinians have died and their homes destroyed as a result of the Oct 7th military decision made by their political leaders and Iran.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Hamas, not the Palestinian people in general, because they are not the same, shouldn't have taken military action when they were not able to protect themselves or the people of Gaza from the inevitable response.
Do you think the attack on 7 October was either morally acceptable or tactically rational?
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
It's hard to reply to that without following Tim's debating methods, but I'll just say this started long before October the 7th
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
As Israel’s siege on north Gaza continues, how are people coping?
Israeli forces launched an operation in the north on October 6, laying siege to hundreds of thousands of people.
Report by Al Jazeera.
They have some contact with remaining medical staff in hospitals who are refusing to leave their patients.
Reading the article and IDF have put remaining population effectively under siege
It's very hard to verify exactly what's going on.
It also looks like they are separating men from woman and children when they can. This is from IDF footage.
A doctor told Al Jazeera he was in convoy trying to get to north and was stopped by IDF
maomao
普費斯
I'm not getting caught up in the morality, the armed forces of both sides are immoral but the 'tactically rational' line is used exclusively by people who think the Palestinians and their various armed forces should just shut up and accept their lot. Just as conversations aren't all rational arguments where we try to persuade each other of our point of view, acts of violence are rarely a rational tactic towards a clear aim but rather born of emotions like hatred and vengeance. What did the Israelis think the result of keeping two million people in an open air prison was going to be? Was that a rational act?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
That raises some good points and causes me to reflect on how I expressed myself above. But, I'm still not really comfortable with the notion that, to the people, any armed forces are necessarily "theirs" or operate in their interests.
little_legs
Поехали!
Look I support ending the holocaust as much as the next guy, but the Jewish partisans in Warsaw are an obstacle to peace.
History shows us that sooner or later there will be a revolt against brutality whether that itself be brutal beyond belief or peaceful. Haiti is a classic example as is the Warsaw Ghetto or the slave revolts in what is now present day Guyana. The first succeeded, the others sadly failed.
Unfortunately it will happen again, Israel cannot oppress and/or kill its way out of the situation it has created.
Although ,clearly, it's going to have a damn good try
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Does anyone know whether anyone in Gaza is still able to leave since the Israelis destroyed the Rafah crossing? I'm in contact with 2 people in Gaza through Goodreads who are trying to raise money to get out, but I'm pretty worried about them because the info on the Rafah crossing i can find, seems to suggest the area is now controlled by Israel.
tony.c
Well-Known Member
At least one of the people who I have supported on GoFundMe has got out. But he is a doctor and got out recently, travelling to study in Manchester, arriving a few days ago. Israelis might have been more amenable as he is a doctor.
Apparently it costs more than $5000 per person to get a visa from an agent in Egypt.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
The Israeli general Populace and the IDF are not to be considered wholly distinct, most Israelis have either been in the IDF or have a family member in the IDF.
Polls indicate mass support for the IDF in the Civilian population.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
How did he get out (assuming you know this?) By the Rafah crossing or somewhere else?
tony.c
Well-Known Member
I can't remember for sure. I think he said it was through the Rafah crossing.
Edit: Yes it was through the Rafah crossing. It is the only exit Palestinians can leave Gaza. They have to get a visa from an Israel approved Egyptian agent for $5000+ and get permission to leave from IDF after security vetting. With raising funds this can take weeks or months. The IDF only allow a certain number to leave each day.
Edit: Yes it was through the Rafah crossing. It is the only exit Palestinians can leave Gaza. They have to get a visa from an Israel approved Egyptian agent for $5000+ and get permission to leave from IDF after security vetting. With raising funds this can take weeks or months. The IDF only allow a certain number to leave each day.
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Yes I read it. It's full of may, might, could, if, possibly etc. and treats some old and fairly out-there ultra-nationalistic 'aspirations' writing as if it's factual and likely to happen, rather than some far-right zionist fever dream. Fair enough, someone was bound to.
But you know, linking Herzl's 19th century zionism (with no mention of the pogroms and oppression that created that movement in the first place) to someone's opinion that the presence of extremists in Israel who still dream of a 'super-israel' (which no doubt there are) is evidence of A Strategic National Plan to that effect is .. ludicrous tbh.
כלל לא! כש אני רוצה לדעת משהו על תוכניות ישראליות, אני כול פעם קורא קונספירציות אירופאיות
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
OK. They have raised over 10k but she said that she had to raise the donation amount because they've had to spend some of it for basic necessities etc.
dylanredefined
Not a house elf a tiger
Something that didn't lead to massive retaliation..Springs to mind.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Well, they did try the peaceful Great March of Return some years ago, and the IDF killed a numer of them
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Place a flower in the barrel of a Sniper's M89 that just shot a kid in the street for throwing a stone perhaps?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF that assumes that the other side is rational and that it wouldnt do bad things unless provoked.
October 7th was a massacre of many innocent people but, in addition to the past 75 years, it came after ten months of the Israeli regime both demonstrating that it paid no heed to any agreements it signed with anyone else and that it had clear designs on ending the status quo protecting al-Aqsa. Many people (including Biden, the Jordanians, Egyptians and Fatah) tried to head this off by bringing some small crumb of trust back but they were all ignored, or belittled and ignored and so we ended up where we are now.
teqniq
DisMembered
Few days old but still relevant concerning Labour's absolutely parlous position concerning Israel and the plight of the Palestinians:
www.middleeasteye.net
War on Gaza: How Starmer's Labour government has enabled Israel's genocide
Some hoped the new government would chart a fresh course, but after 100 days in office, Starmer continues to fail Palestinians
www.middleeasteye.net
Starmer has never hid where his allegiances lie. An appalling POS.Few days old but still relevant concerning Labour's absolutely parlous position concerning Israel and the plight of the Palestinians:
War on Gaza: How Starmer's Labour government has enabled Israel's genocide
Some hoped the new government would chart a fresh course, but after 100 days in office, Starmer continues to fail Palestinians
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
وَقَطَّعۡنَٰهُمۡ فِي ٱلۡأَرۡضِأُمَمٗاۖ مِّنۡهُمُٱلصَّـٰلِحُونَ وَمِنۡهُمۡدُونَ ذَٰلِكَۖوَبَلَوۡنَٰهُمبِٱلۡحَسَنَٰتِوَٱلسَّيِّـَٔاتِ لَعَلَّهُمۡيَرۡجِعُونَ
I’m not one of those that judges others on their race or caste, so I’m not sure if I can take her opinion seriously. Unless someone from the chosen people tells me so.
Maybe that’s the often ignored issue.
﴿وَقَطَّعْنَاهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ أُمَمًا ۖ مِّنْهُمُ الصَّالِحُونَ وَمِنْهُمْ دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ ۖ وَبَلَوْنَاهُم بِالْحَسَنَاتِ وَالسَّيِّئَاتِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ﴾
[ الأعراف: 168]
it was an analysis based on quotes from Israeli military dickheads. I’ve no doubt she is educated somewhat. So I respect her opinion. Maybe when you are educated yourself it grates somewhat. Particularly if they come from a lesser country.Yes I read it. It's full of may, might, could, if, possibly etc. and treats some old and fairly out-there ultra-nationalistic 'aspirations' writing as if it's factual and likely to happen, rather than some far-right zionist fever dream. Fair enough, someone was bound to.
But you know, linking Herzl's 19th century zionism (with no mention of the pogroms and oppression that created that movement in the first place) to someone's opinion that the presence of extremists in Israel who still dream of a 'super-israel' (which no doubt there are) is evidence of A Strategic National Plan to that effect is .. ludicrous tbh.
כלל לא! כש אני רוצה לדעת משהו על תוכניות ישראליות, אני כול פעם קורא קונספירציות אירופאיות
I’m not one of those that judges others on their race or caste, so I’m not sure if I can take her opinion seriously. Unless someone from the chosen people tells me so.
Maybe that’s the often ignored issue.
﴿وَقَطَّعْنَاهُمْ فِي الْأَرْضِ أُمَمًا ۖ مِّنْهُمُ الصَّالِحُونَ وَمِنْهُمْ دُونَ ذَٰلِكَ ۖ وَبَلَوْنَاهُم بِالْحَسَنَاتِ وَالسَّيِّئَاتِ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَرْجِعُونَ﴾
[ الأعراف: 168]
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Why is there so much casual antisemitism on this thread?
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