Right, but that's what I'm saying. It's 'their project' now, but it wasn't always, and it doesn't have to be. They're extremists. The history of the state of israel is essentially one of extremists fighting other extremists in what both groups see as a zero-sum game. But there's a pre-1948 and pre-1917 context here that needs to be understood, and can't be properly represented by two extremist politicians who are even ridiculed inside Israel.
I have read Tom Segev history of the mandate. I may be mistaken as read that a long time ago but impression I got is that there was possibilities of co existence. Some European Jews went to Palestine and found it wasn't an empty land. Nor did they want to go out and till the soil. But gravitated towards towns. Which were mixed.
In fact in his book, which was one by an Israeli re looking at its recent past, he points out that some Jews who went there were less than impressed by the country. That is pre establishment of the State of Israel.
And would rather have gone to US.
Been working through the
Line in the Sand got on to the section about aftermath of WW2. Due to French and British rivalries in middle east France supported Zionist paramilitary groups like Irgun and Stern gang.
The one context where push for a state for Jews is more understandable is the Holocaust. The book goes into detail about how after end of WW2 surviving Jews were left in Displaced Persons Camps. No other country was falling over itself to take them in.
People like David Ben Gurion and others organised ships to try to get through the blockade by British ships.
France was openly allowing its ports to be used for this. Partly because anyone who gave the British a hard time they supported partly because their was genuine support from the left in France for Jewish homeland in Palestine. Leon Blum, Sartre and the Left Bank.
This I've come across in bits and pieces that I've read. For a while there was a Left take on Zionism that was supportive of it given the context of the Holocaust and situation of surviving Jews at end of WW2. Probably helped that people like David Ben Gurion were Labour Zionists and not on the right. It's the background to British Labour party support of Zionism.
In USA the Zionist campaigning directed towards American public was that Zionism was equivalent of the Americans who fought the British in the War of independence. People like Marlon Brando supported this. It was highly effective campaigning. As was the Exodus ship. A PR disaster for British they walked into.
This context I can understand is rooted in the particular circumstances of WW2. And imo the Zionist reaction was in that context understandable. Push for a state now and push for unrestricted immigration from Europe of Jews in displaced person camps. Plus many Jews who managed to get back home found their neighbours didn't want them back. So effectively stateless.
So what went wrong after that to lead to situation where a lot of people on Liberal left do not back Zionism?
I don't think its latent anti semitism coming through.
Its things like the decades long occupation of the West Bank. 1982 ( as
The39thStep posted up about old newsreels) where Israel state started to be seen as the aggressor which have led to many no longer supporting the idea of Zionism.
Now with the present day Israel might last but as far as world opinion goes I now think its lost that support. Which it had just after WW2. This isn't due to anti semitism.
