Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[teqniq]

Some interesting analysis on the ceasefire deal, the position of France and the ICC warrants:

International law is real

The Hague's arrest warrant against Israeli leaders seemed to have had effects on the ground in Lebanon.

www.pettimatthew.com

 

[mojo pixy]

Some interesting analysis on the ceasefire deal, the position of France and the ICC warrants:

International law is real

The Hague's arrest warrant against Israeli leaders seemed to have had effects on the ground in Lebanon.

www.pettimatthew.com

It makes the main point that basically, this is realpolitik at work. Whatever the truth of it, it certainly seems this was some concession or another made to get netanyahu to agree to stop the guns. I mean we already know this whole insane shitshow is at heart about keeping himself out of the dock, so how would that not be a prerequisite for him once France were co-running the negotiations. France having already implied it wasn't against arresting him on the ICC warrant.

However, I was intrigued by this:

powerful countries will shield their allies (and particularly their golden calf Israel)

I can't see why, of all the many ways he could have described Israel, he thought "golden calf" was what he'd go with. I can't say I care for it very much. At best it's just a bizarre analogy but at worst it .. smells bad.

Anyway, some guns have stopped, and on balance I think that's good however it was achieved.

 

[Gramsci]

I was listening to Mouin Rabbini last night.



This was just before the ceasefire.

On the so called "axis of resistance"

Iran, Hezbollah, Yemen and Hamas he was saying it's a coalition. That is I think he means Iran isn't using proxies. He did say he reckons Hamas hadn't told Iran their plans for attacking Israel.

That each component of this loose coalition had there own agency. And whilst agreeing on some issues they had their own policies.

Israel after successful assassination in Iran and the pager attack started to think it had opportunity to reshape the middle east as it had done with it's victory in 67.

One way to do this is to decouple each member of the coalition individually.

Despite Israel actions Hezbollah and Iran aren't into a regional war with Israel.

Hezbollah has it's own internal issues in Lebanon. It's not just some terror outfit. It's part of Lebanon political scene.

With the ceasefire Hezbollah can rebuild itself as a Lebanese political actor.

I can't help but feel for Israel state this is a decoupling of one part of the axis of resistance from supporting Palestinians. So a limited success.

One thing it also shows as comes up in the video is that compared with 67 Arab regimes have shown they won't stand up to Israel.

Palestinians are being killed in thousands in Gaza an Arab state is bombed and invaded whilst the rest of Arab states have done little.

 

[Gramsci]

Btw the talk he gave in video I posted above was organised by some at the uni as he had been dropped as a speaker at short notice for another event.

It appears on basis of anti semitism

At beginning of his talk in video posted above he does start by briefly going over this.



Quite appalling treatment of a decent academic. He is pro Palestine. That imo is why he got attacked.

 

[Gramsci]

In his talk Mouin Rabbini doesn't give a lot of weight to the ICC arrest warrants.

He said it's just two politicians. One no longer in government the other won't be around in power much longer.

What I think he means is that Israeli state will go on. That what's been happening isn't just about these two

He also says the same about USA. There are differences between Trump and Biden

However there are continuities in USA policy towards Israel.

 

[ska invita]

Well that lets Putin off the hook as well... Or are we going to see some more rank western hypocrisy.

Of course but it doesn't . Rank western hypocrisy is so ancient no one but school children believes it's rules are actually applied

 

[HeAthen]

But Israel aren't going to annex any of Gaza.....

Israel building new military dividing line across Gaza, satellite images suggest

Satellite images show the IDF has destroyed hundreds of buildings in north Gaza as it creates the divide.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yeah, that's clearly bollocks.

 

[_Russ_]

Of course but it doesn't . Rank western hypocrisy is so ancient no one but school children believes it's rules are actually applied

But they are...selectively

 

[Gramsci]

What can I say?

UK's David Lammy blasted for saying 'there are no journalists in Gaza'

Journalists around the world condemn the British foreign secretary for erasing the work and suffering of Palestinian journalists

www.middleeasteye.net

I'm beginning to really dislike Lammy.

“Lammy’s comments are racist and an insult to hardworking Palestinian journalists, who have been doing an exceptional job under dire circumstances,” award-winning Palestinian journalist Lamis Andoni told Middle East Eye.

 

[Gramsci]

MP asks him if , given the ICC warrants , he would still meet Netanyahu.

He comes out with convoluted legalistic argument about rule of law and its up to the legal system. Nothing to do with me squire.

Instead of answering her straightforward question.

If she had asked the same question but replaced Netanyahu with Putin I wonder what he would have said. I don't think he would have come out with the same answer.

 

[teqniq]

What can I say?

UK's David Lammy blasted for saying 'there are no journalists in Gaza'

Journalists around the world condemn the British foreign secretary for erasing the work and suffering of Palestinian journalists

www.middleeasteye.net

I'm beginning to really dislike Lammy.

He hasn't got a clue, He hasn't bothered to actually inform himself on what is going on there and he doesn't give a fuck.

 

[agricola]

What can I say?

UK's David Lammy blasted for saying 'there are no journalists in Gaza'

Journalists around the world condemn the British foreign secretary for erasing the work and suffering of Palestinian journalists

www.middleeasteye.net

I'm beginning to really dislike Lammy.

What a strange statement, not only to deny the reality of Palestinian journalism but also to imply that only journalists or politicians could inform him of what is actually occuring there.

There are a multitude of people who could tell him that - if he doesnt want to listen to the Gazans themselves then there are British citizens there and who have come back recently (both of Palestinian descent and people working for NGOs), the Church of England (Al-Ahli Hospital), the Commonwealth War Graves Commission (two cemeteries) and of course the RAF have been overhead throughout. There was at least one Chevening scholar too, but the IDF killed him and his family.

 

[Pickman's model]

MP asks him if , given the ICC warrants , he would still meet Netanyahu.

He comes out with convoluted legalistic argument about rule of law and its up to the legal system. Nothing to do with me squire.

Instead of answering her straightforward question.

If she had asked the same question but replaced Netanyahu with Putin I wonder what he would have said. I don't think he would have come out with the same answer.

If Adolf Hitler flew in today...

 

[zahir]

What can I say?

UK's David Lammy blasted for saying 'there are no journalists in Gaza'

Journalists around the world condemn the British foreign secretary for erasing the work and suffering of Palestinian journalists

www.middleeasteye.net

I'm beginning to really dislike Lammy.

tbf Israel has been doing its best to make this the case.

Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war - Committee to Protect Journalists

The Israel-Gaza war has taken an unprecedented toll on Gazan journalists since Israel declared war on Hamas following its attack against Israel on October 7, 2023. As of November 26, 2024, CPJ’s preliminary investigations showed at least 137 journalists and media workers were among the more than...

cpj.org

Remembering Ismail Al-Ghoul, Gaza City's voice to the world

How do we continue with business as usual after another friend and icon of Palestinian journalism was brutally killed for doing his job?

www.972mag.com

Tracing attacks on Gaza’s press buildings

The Israeli army struck major media institutions in Gaza despite assurances of safety, and appears to have deliberately targeted cameras that were broadcasting the military offensive, a new investigation shows.

www.972mag.com

How Israeli drone strikes are killing journalists in Gaza

Survivor testimonies and audiovisual analysis reveal a pattern of strikes by Israeli UAVs on Palestinian journalists in recent months.

www.972mag.com

 

[little_legs]

Some interesting analysis on the ceasefire deal, the position of France and the ICC warrants:

International law is real

The Hague's arrest warrant against Israeli leaders seemed to have had effects on the ground in Lebanon.

www.pettimatthew.com

Well, of course, here is a nazi pig stating the ICC was created to get real baddies

 

[teqniq]

World Central Kitchen workers targeted and killed. Again:

 

[Gramsci]

Listened to this on Palestine Deep dive. Interview with member of BPC

A new organisation- British Palestinian Committee.

British Palestinian Committee

britpalcommittee.co.uk

It's basically a middle class pressure group. ( I'm not saying that in derogative way) Not that large and not saying it represents all Palestinians. It fills a gap for British Palestinian voices to be heard directly. To lobby on policy matters and politicians.

The person interviewed is descended from one of the leading families in Palestine ( or were) One relative being exiled by British during Arab revolt.

The policy document ( attached to this post)aimed at the new government covers standard stuff to those who've been following this. Worth a read.

Includes:

End arms sales

Support SA case

Oppose IHRA plus examples

Bring in scheme for those who want to get out similar to the Ukrainian one.

Ditch the Roadmap agreed by last government

No laws against BDS

Recognise Britain's colonial debt to Palestinians.

Zionism is settler colonialism .

Support ICJ and ICC ruling actively with sanctions.

All standard stuff. As she says in interview if one says this in meetings with policy makers/ politicians in this country it comes across as radical.

When it's not really. It appears so in context of this countries political decision makers supporting Zionism and State of Israel

She also says that there's pressure to be a "good" Palestinian when talking to decision makers in this country. Something one can slip into without thinking.

I remember Rashid Khalidi the historian saying that one thing Zionism did better than Palestinians was lobbying.

This group seems to me necessary.

There policy document is saying a new government is opportunity to change policy on Palestine

 

[Gramsci]

To add what I've said in previous post on the British Palestine Committee.

In the policy document it has section on the Labour party. The Labour party support of Zionism goes back to its early days. From supporting the Balfour Declaration to supporting idea of population transfers. All before the State of Israel was founded.

So the default mode of the party is Zionist. When mainstream Zionism under David Ben Gurion was Labour Zionist. Continues to this day with David Lammy the Foreign Secretary saying he is a Zionist.

Things did change with over what happened in Lebanon in 82. Gradually a sea change in Labour party over support of Zionism. With more support for Palestinians.

Its like the present Labour party under Starmer has gone back to the default mode for Labour party.

Quite surprising in some ways as what has been happening in Gaza over last year is far worse than 82

The policy document also points out that their have been times when British governments did ban arms sales to Israel

I don't really understand what happened over intervening years. As policy document points out the last Tory government was one of the most pro Israel ever. Despite what was happening in Gaza.

And the present Labour government has only put relatively mild arms embargos on Israel.

How this happened I'm not clear. Its almost as though post 82 there was less support for Israel and it gradually changed back the other way.

Imo it means an uphill struggle for what in real terms is mainstream group - the British Palestinian Committee to get heard.

 

[Gramsci]

And the thing I forgot to say was in the policy document they make this good suggestion

Formally recognise that Israel’s laws, policies and practices meet the legal
definition of apartheid, and take appropriate and effective action to remedy this
crime, including by pushing for the reconstitution of the UN Special Committee
Against Apartheid and the UN Centre Against Apartheid.

And that is within the State of Israel as well as the territories it occupies

Israel’s attacks on the individual and collective rights of the Palestinian people, however, did
not begin last October and are not restricted to Gaza, which has been under siege for 17
years. Over many decades, successive Israeli governments have established a complex system
of discriminatory laws, policies, and practices throughout the entirety of the land between the
River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea. There is now widespread consensus within the
human rights community that Israel is committing the crime of apartheid. Amnesty
International,³⁴ Human Rights Watch,³⁵ and Israel’s largest human rights organisation,
B'Tselem,³⁶ are the most recent organisations to reach this conclusion alongside UN bodies,
experts, and international lawyers. The ICJ Advisory Opinion of 19th July also declared that
Israel’s legislation and measures violate the international prohibition on racial segregation and
apartheid – reaffirming what Palestinian civil society, academics, lawyers, and human rights
defenders have been describing for decades.³⁷

In response to the discriminatory racial policies of the South African apartheid regime, the UN
General Assembly voted in 1962 to establish the UN Special Committee Against Apartheid,
and, in 1976, the UN Centre Against Apartheid was constituted. These bodies promoted the
international campaign against apartheid, pressed for effective sanctions against the South
African regime, arranged for assistance to its victims, and brought publicity to the crime of
apartheid and the resistance of the South African people.

 

[Gramsci]

If all of the above suggestions from the British Palestinian Committee was part of the Labour party policy and the policies of this Labour government demos would not be necessary.

What the BPC is proposing in its policy document is completely reasonable. Rooted in international law and the UN.

Basically saying this is a human rights issue and human rights as set out post WW2 should apply to Palestinians

 

[Gramsci]

And I agree with the policy document this country should own up to its imperial past and its meddling in the middle east to the detriment of the people who lived there.

 

[krtek a houby]

And I agree with the policy document this country should own up to its imperial past and its meddling in the middle east to the detriment of the people who lived there.

Not just the Middle East

 

[RhymnRzn]

Well, of course, here is a nazi pig stating the ICC was created to get real baddies

certainly a candidate for the role of "before whose face the entire earth fled"

 

[Gramsci]

Not just the Middle East

I'm aware of that.

I didn't know much about British empire and the middle east before October 7th. France and Britain have a lot to answer for in relation to modern middle east

 

[Gramsci]

This is seriously annoying me



So in meeting with the PM these groups saying they represent British Jewish opinion raised concerns with the PM over the ICC warrants,

What concerns?

Also complaining about the demos



This is why a British Palestinian voice is needed.

Its why the British Palestinian Committee measured policy paper is in stark contrast to pro Israel groups

I wonder if British Palestinian get high level talks with government and PM like this.

And reclaim streets? Sorry people have a democratic right to demonstrate.

I've been on a lot of the demos and they have been peaceful. With a wide range of people.

Peaceful despite provocative counter demos by Israeli supporters waving flags and having banners saying no genocide is happening in Gaza.

Which at all the demos I've been on there has been no trouble when passing the pro Israel counter demo

So calling for reclaiming the streets is bollox

 

[Gramsci]

This kind of thing is continual and now making me angry.

 

[Gramsci]

I am impressed by the Palestinian ambassador to UK.

He gets asked the ( in this country) obligatory question about condemning Hamas October 7th attack. As though this all started on 7th October.

He does stand his ground here.

I'm about half way through this history of Gaza

Gaza: A History | Jean-Pierre Filiu | London Review Bookshop

Winner of the Middle East Monitor Palestine Book Award and a Guardian Book of the YearThe story of the struggle to control Gaza, from the mid-nineteenth century to the…

www.londonreviewbookshop.co.uk

Recommend it highly. Also has a lot of stuff about the conflict in general. Level headed decent account of twists and turns in Gaza and beyond. Encyclopedic history of all the groups and individuals involved on both sides.

The ambassador to UK is part of Fatah mainstream.

In the Oslo peace process, which the book recounts, which Arafat signed up to he agreed to stopping terrorist attacks on Israel and recognised Israel

Ambassador says in the YouTube that they recognise Israel

In the book recounts several episodes where PA security ( mainly Fatah) arrested Hamas militants. Who rejected peace process that Arafat agreed and continued armed actions. This was a political risk for Arafat and he / Fatah paid dearly for it with Palestinian population. Losing credibility.

The Oslo peace process was supported and welcomed by ordinary Gaza population.

However as years went on and no final real deal happened understandable disappointment happened.

Hence mainstream Arafat / Fatah kept their side of the bargain.

Israel the Zionist state long term did not keep to its side of the bargain

What a surprise.

Yes reading the history is imo important. Particularly when one is in a country that generally gives Israel a free ride.

The main criticism of Arafat for signing up to peace process was that cast iron guarantees for a Palestinian state were not written into the so called peace process.

From my recent reading it was the Israel state that had no intention of realising a real two state solution.

Some limited self government but that was it.

So the context that the Israeli ambassador is going on about is , as he's trying to say, gets lost in the repeated view in Western press that one should see this as starting on 7th October.

Unless one reads the history its hard to understand what the Palestinian ambassador is gong on about. Despite him being such a good speaker.

 

[planetgeli]

Typical BBC 'balance' crap but a decent read. Even the IDF get war fatigue. Some of them.

IDF refusers: The men who volunteered but now won't fight in Gaza

Why men who reported for duty after October 7 are now refusing to fight

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[oryx]

Typical BBC 'balance' crap but a decent read. Even the IDF get war fatigue. Some of them.

IDF refusers: The men who volunteered but now won't fight in Gaza

Why men who reported for duty after October 7 are now refusing to fight

www.bbc.co.uk

Literally just finished reading that. Thought it was an interesting read.

Back then, there was no doubt about reporting for duty. The country was under attack. The hostages had to be brought home.

Then came the fighting in Gaza itself. Things seen that could not be unseen. Like the night he saw cats eating human remains in the roadway.

“Start to imagine, like an apocalypse. You look to your right, you look to your left, all you see is destroyed buildings, buildings that are damaged by fire, by missiles, everything. That's Gaza right now.”

One year on, the young man who reported for duty on 7 October is refusing to fight.

 

[HeAthen]

Unless one reads the history its hard to understand what the Palestinian ambassador is gong on about. Despite him being such a good speaker.

It might have helped if the twat that is Adam Boulton had let him finih what he was saying. I really do detest that twat.

I rememer in the 90s that whenever there looked like some sort of peace deal actually working that Israel would then start bombing the shit out of Palestine using very flimsy reasons as 'justification'. The Israeli leadership simply doesn't and hasn't wanted peace.