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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

I see they've had another attempt at derailing ceasefire talks overnight:

news.sky.com

Dozens killed in Israeli strike on school-turned-shelter in Gaza City, Palestinian health officials say

An estimated 6,000 displaced people were in the school when it was hit by three missiles, a spokesperson for the Civil Defense in Hamas-run Gaza.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
www.middleeasteye.net

Israel bombs Gaza school whilst displaced Palestinians prayed, killing at least 100

Videos obtained by MEE showed scores of bodies strewn across the floor of the Al-Tabin school in Gaza City after it was targeted in an early morning strike
www.middleeasteye.net www.middleeasteye.net
 
I mean, it's a policy.

......................................
But targeting schools has become a regular feature of IDF operations in recent weeks, apparently as part of what it says is an ongoing effort to destroy Hamas military infrastructure.

Since the beginning of July, more than a dozen schools have been hit, according to unofficial tallies, including at one point four in four days.

Each time, in nearly identical statements, the IDF says Hamas is hiding in the schools and using them as command centres to plan and carry out attacks,
......................................

A fascist policy.
 
Gramsci said:
This turned up in my twitter feed

Labour against Anti Semitism have written to Starmer about the disappointment they have now he is in power. According to them he's rewarding terrorism.abroad and hate groups here.



So according to LAAS who have decided they represent British Jews Starmer and Lammy lack of 100 percent support for state of Israel is giving in to anti semites.

I kind of thought the Israeli lobby thing was a bit overdone. I think I will put Ilan Pappe book on Israeli lobby on my reading list.

.
This group gets airtime on radio for its views





It's the conflation between anti semitism and opposing the State of Israel/ the present government that runs it that gets me.

From what they are saying to Starmer seems to me that want him to go back to his original position of supporting cutting off of water etc

The unpleasant edge to it is that this group seems oblivious to the destruction of Gaza and thousands of dead Palestinians. Plus the ongoing settlement building in West Bank. And no mention of ICJ ruling on state of Israel illegal occupation of West Bank.

TBF outfits like this are about supporting Israel. Not about anti semitism.
Click to expand...

They are not oblivious to genocide: they support it
 
www3.nhk.or.jp

US, European envoys to Japan deliver letter of concern to Nagasaki mayor | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

It has been revealed that US and European ambassadors to Japan jointly sent a letter of concern to the mayor of Nagasaki last month over the city's decision not to invite Israel to an annual peace event.
www3.nhk.or.jp www3.nhk.or.jp

Cannot find the letter the G7 and EU wrote. Excerpts from it here.

Russia and Belarus are also not invited but that is not a problem for the G7 and EU.

The envoys said in the letter that not inviting Israel "would result in placing Israel on the same level with countries such as Russia and Belarus, who are the only other countries not invited to this ceremony." They went on to say, "Such an eventuality would be unfortunate and misleading.
Click to expand...

Considering Israel has been bombing Gaza for months killing large numbers of civilians myself I do not have a problem with Israel not being invited.

Does come across as the usual double standard from western countries. Issue for the letter writers is that it puts Israel state in same category as Russia

Also Israel is a nuclear armed state. But never publicly acknowledges this.
 

Reimagining Zionism: the leaders who opposed the creation of a Jewish state - Balfour Project

A historian of the Middle East recalls the passionate Zionists who opposed such an entity as a distraction from the goal of ‘true Zionism’, which was to create a land where Arabs and Jews would flourish together. By JOHN MCHUGO From the 27 July 2024 edition of THE TABLET “A STATE at any cost” is
balfourproject.org balfourproject.org

A bit of historical background. What could have been the future of Palestine.

These two leaders minority position within Zionism was prophetic. They warned against a Israel State. That Jews should live alongside Arabs and share the land.

The dominant strain of Zionism was led by David Ben Gurion.

Magnes and Buber argued that Palestine should become a binational state shared by Arabs and Jews, which Buber saw as a more authentic fulfilment of Zionism than a solely Jewish state. To Ben-Gurion’s fury, the pair gave evidence against the partition of Palestine to Unscop, the UN Special Commission on Palestine created in 1947 to make recommendations about the future government of Palestine.

Buber told the commission, “It is … ethically and politically incumbent upon ‘a regenerated Jewish people in Palestine’ not only to aim to live peacefully ‘next’ to the Arabs of the land but also ‘with’ them … Together they are to work to develop the country for the equal benefit of both communities. Within the framework of a shared Arab-Jewish stewardship of the country, Jewish cultural and social autonomy would not, as the great part of the Jewish people think today, necessarily lead to the demand for ‘a Jewish state’ or a ‘Jewish majority’. We need for this land as many Jews as it is possible to absorb, but not in order to establish a majority against a minority
Click to expand...

With the success of the Israel state under David Ben Gurion this kind of Zionism was discredited and marginalised.
 
The tried and tested Zionist tactic of making "facts on the ground"

www.theguardian.com

‘The demolitions are equal to death’: the Palestinian families whose West Bank homes have been bulldozed

The Nawajas saved for 15 years to build their house. Now it is razed, along with over 2,000 more since 7 October, under a huge expansion of illegal Israeli settlements
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

These tactics have been going on since occupation started. Accelerated now since 7th October.

The so called peace process did not stop them.

The ongoing land grabbing/ refusals for building permits for Palestinians and building of infrastructure ( for Jews only) over the years is de facto annexation. Without making the existing Palestinians Israeli citizens. As this would upset that other Zionist belief in importance of demographics.

This is war against Palestinians by other means,

As article states this is not just about some right wing religious Zionists its part funded and pushed by Israeli state.

Unless international community in West starts a proper full on sanction regime against Israel state this annexation will continue.
 
Brian Whitaker blog post on UK Lawyers for Israel

From warfare to lawfare: Israel's other battleground

Far away from the carnage in Gaza there’s a small army of lawyers in Britain battling against critics of Israel. UK Lawyers for Israel (UKLFI) uses its members’ legal skills to combat “attempts to undermine, attack and/or delegitimise Israel, Israeli organisations, Israelis and/or supporters of...
al-bab.com al-bab.com
 
Larry O'Hara said:
They are not oblivious to genocide: they support it
Click to expand...

I'm not Jewish myself. However I live in Lambeth and have met Jews highly critical of Israel in my local PSC group.

Cushman lives in Lambeth. Cllrs Abrams who is in Momentum and who the ruling right wing Lambeth labour group suspended for supporting a ceasefire is another casualty of those Jews who aren't part of the "mainstream" Jewish groups. As are the other groups who I've seen on demos. The Jewish bloc is quite big.

The Jewish people I've met who are part of PSC are often explicitly anti Zionist. That now gets one labeled as self hating Jew.

Here is Cllr Abrams at recent demo about far right violence,
As a Jewish councillor in the Labour party, I am so angry that for 10 wasted years we’ve had the entire media and most of the political class gaslight us that left wing racism and anti-semitism was the biggest threat, whilst also simultaneously peddling racist and Islamophobic rhetoric and fanning the flames of the actual real threat, the far right,” said Abrams.
Click to expand...

brixtonblog.com

Brixton rally against far right violence

SUTR organiser Sam “We haven’t seen this kind of racism on our streets ever – where people don’t feel safe going to work, children don’t feel safe going to school.” That was how Stand Up To Racism (SUTR) organiser Sam introduced a rally in Windrush square yesterday (10 August) one of several o
brixtonblog.com brixtonblog.com

What concerns me is that only one voice from Jewish community gets taken
seriously.

People like Abrams get treated very badly.

So yes I agree mainstream Jewish groups like Board of Deputies imo are just supporting Israel whatever government is in power and whatever it does. As they see supporting Zionism as part of fight against anti semitism. And any wavering as giving into it.

Deaths of large numbers of Palestinians is collateral damage. And the fault of Hamas for using them as human shields.
 
Last edited:
This will never end unless western powers stop allowing Israel to break International Laws with impunity.
If you suggested to the western Powers that it should allow a country to have a Known Nuclear arsenal and pretend its not there thus obviating non proliferation treaties and international oversight, they would call you nuts and attack that country if it looked like it was too close to realising that.
Unless of course that country is Israel...
 
Sue said:
I heard this live yesterday. The Israeli government spokesman was an absolute disgrace.

www.theguardian.com

Israel spokesperson accuses BBC’s Mishal Husain of pro-Palestinian bias

Broadcaster defends Radio 4 presenter’s ‘legitimate’ questions to David Mencer, who claimed she was parroting ‘terrorist organisations’
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

It is the laziness of the argument that really does my head in - I mean, anyone on Instagram can see that women and children were killed in the strike on that school; anyone with the internet can see that Dr Khamis Elessi is about as far from a pseudo-medic as one can get.

Even the Finchley Road comment is claimed to be caused by biased reporting, as if what happened / what was intended to happen at Sheikh Jarrah (which kicked the fighting then off) wasn't universally condemned.
 
agricola said:
Ben-Gvir with another valiant attempt to kick things off even worse today:

Click to expand...

And also I notice this from a member of the supposedly mainstream Likud party,


Likud MK Amit Halevi, who also visited the site today, says in a statement that he and the over 1,000 Jews who visited the site today did it “in prayer for victory in the war.”

He adds: “This is a war for the Mount, for God, against an enemy that in the name of religion fills the world with murderousness, barbarism and evil in the face of the Israeli culture and its call from the Temple Mount for justice, truth, morality and mercy.”
Click to expand...

This is provocation. And not just from the far right
 
Gramsci said:
This is provocation. And not just from the far right
Click to expand...

He (Ben-Gvir) also said this:

“The national security minister’s policy is to enable freedom of worship for Jews in all places, including the Temple Mount, and Jews will continue to do so in the future as well,” he said in a defiant statement.

“The Temple Mount is a sovereign area in the State of Israel’s capital,” Ben Gvir added. “There is no law that permits engaging in racist discrimination against Jews at the Temple Mount or anywhere else in Israel.”
Click to expand...

... which I would imagine has managed to unify the various Christian communities in Jerusalem.
 
Gramsci said:
And also I notice this from a member of the supposedly mainstream Likud party,




This is provocation. And not just from the far right
Click to expand...
In any functioning democracy he would have been sacked for this (and other previous incidents). That he stays in post just shows how much Netanyahu is only interested in his own interests and not in any search for peace.
 
Smangus said:
A very interesting long read. A take on the current Israeli society's political view on the war, through the prism of a former Jewish IDF veteran now historian.

Interestingly, he is now calling Israeli policy towards Gaza as genocide and makes direct comparison with the political environment in Israel now with Germany in the 30s-40s.

As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel
Click to expand...
Veterans are never former veterans. But it's a very good article
 
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