Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
Look. Hamas lifestock.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Jewishness is at the heart of saying Israel shouldn't have designated itself in law as "the nation-state of the Jewish people"
You're denying "antisemitism" is even a thing. Asking 'why were the Jews thrown out in the first place?' as if that has any bearing on anything, quoting scripture as if Jews should know better or something. At least three other posters have called your posts antisemitic, did this not give you pause for thought?
And by the way, fuck off trying to tell me what to think
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I don't think the Allied powers would have accepted similar terms if Japan had called for a ceasefire in mid 1945, either.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
Israel is not a Jewish state. Most thinking Jews reject their violence and hellbent intention on destruction. I’m just goy, what the fuck do I know. Don’t have access to that specialness that makes a nation think it has the right to behave in such a manner.Jewishness is at the heart of saying Israel shouldn't have designated itself in law as "the nation-state of the Jewish people"
You're denying "antisemitism" is even a thing. Asking 'why were the Jews thrown out in the first place?' as if that has any bearing on anything, quoting scripture as if Jews should know better or something. At least three other posters have called your posts antisemitic, did this not give you pause for thought?
And by the way, fuck off trying to tell me what to think
I’m a humanist I don’t get my fucking knickers twisted about which sky fairy enables me to murder a population. Israel is as much about Jewishness as I am about space travel.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's not a Jewish state. It's the Jewish state.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
And I don't agree with UK being a Christian state. I think monarchy should be abolished and church and state kept separate.
So no I don't have a double standard.
I also think this country still has a problem with it's Imperial legacy. How it treats minorities.
The problem with saying things in law that Israel is unique to Jewish people is that it excludes Palestinians. It's the whole problem with Zionism. Palestinians had to be removed or at least population whittled down as that is necessary to have what Zionism regards as a Jewish state.
For example one reason that Israel has not fully annexed West Bank is that it would have to make the Palestinians citizens. That would upset the demographic balance. So the occupation, which goes on for ever, was way to gradually take land and make sure the Palestinians were kept without rights.
Any real genuine change will mean some kind of one state. With possibly a bi national state. I can't see two state solution on the cards now with all the settlements in West Bank.
As I have posted previously there is concept of national determination that is separate from the state. So idea of national rights for both Palestinians and Israeli Jews within one state
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Indeed. And it behaves very, very, very badly - but that is the issue. Its behaviour, especially since October last year. Not being the nation state of the Jewish people. That is not, and should not be, the issue.
BTW, this is exactly the point where anti-zionism and anti-semitism intersect so I hope everyone's paying attention.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I don't think any state anywhere should proclaim itself a state primarily for only a section of its inhabitants. Being an anarchist I'm not a big fan of the concept of the state anyway. So other countries do this apart from Israel? Well that's wrong too.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Who on this thread are you referring to?
Flavour
hang the bankers
Fuck off back to your cave, prick
PTK
Paul Kegan
On the other hand, other crimes against humanity in recent decades have not always had the same amount of coverage. In Myanmar and Rwanda, for example. I think that the Palestine/Israel conflict gets much coverage because the "Holy Land" is familar from the Bible. The more coverage there is, the more people become concerned.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Not who, what: the idea Israel should only be allowed to exist if it's not an explicitly jewish state. Not that non-jews shouldn't be allowed to live there, vote there, own homes and businesses there (of course they should) but denying it the right to determine its own language, culture, state religion, immigration policy etc like literally every other country on Earth does.
I mean, we can say "it shouldn't exist at all because of settlement and genocide" and that's OK, as long as we rethink Australia, Brazil, Canada etc for the same reason.
But saying it can exist but not be Jewish (or not decide this for itself) is pretty problematic.
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Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
Though they havent given him costs and reduced payiut by 50%
But yes, one in the eye for genocide enablers
What might be fun is if not in the Labour Party he applies to join and then when refused/expelled crowdfunds a legal challenge to Starmer and the other scum running the next Tory government in waiting…
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I have met Palestinians whose grandparents were kicked out of their homes to make this state.
And btw its still going on.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Actually I think this country and others who have been involved in colonialism should be re thought.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Why?
You are conflating Jews and Israel for a start.
I do not see a problem with having a one state where Israeli Jews and Palestinians live as equals in a republic.
The form of it could be bi national.
Same kind of republic I would like to see this country turn into.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Let's talk about societies rather than states. When societies start prescribing and proscribing religions, languages and culture you end with discrimination, conflict, civil war. It happens a lot, but that doesn't make it a good idea. You also get countries where it is not true. Multiple official languages, no state religion at all, no attempt to formally impose culture other than through education. Even where this happens there is no reason to defend it, to imply this is normal or a good idea.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
So what are the borders of this state?
If there is to be an explicitly Jewish state does that mean the illegal settlements in West Bank should go? And the Jewish State remain in the pre 67 borders? With Israel state finally withdrawing from the occupation of West Bank?
( Leaving aside land stolen in 48 and Palestinians expelled from their homes to make this state in 48)
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
As Gramsci says, some countries do need to be rethought.
I find the idea that any state mandates a state religion to be very problematic. Also, it is dangerous imo to talk of states having rights as if they were people. First and foremost, states have responsibilities - towards all those living within their borders.
But in the case of a region with roughly equal numbers of Jews and Muslims living in it - taking the territories of Israel and the occupied areas together - at the very least if you are to have a meaningful peace process, there needs to be equal treatment for both Jews and non-Jews in the region. There are models from elsewhere for how this kind of thing could work - eg Northern Ireland, where elaborate and often cumbersome measures are in place to ensure that neither Protestants nor Catholics dominate. It's not ideal, but peace processes never are. Some fudges are inevitable. There could be certain fudges that would ensure that Judaism is specifically referenced and protected within a new pluralist state. Then you start the process in which the different groups start to live next to and with one another, building shared institutions and civic spaces. Not easy, but again not impossible by any means.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
In short, everyone but Israel gets to decide what Israel is and shall be.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think that's a disingenuous way to characterise those posts. Given how Israel has treated the Palestinians, why should 'Israel get to decide what Israel is and shall be'? Surely everyone in the area that is currently effectively controlled by Israel gets a say. If Israeli politicians had ever been even a tiny bit serious about making a two-state solution work over the 30 years since the Oslo Accords, maybe I'd say different. But they haven't. They've undermined and subverted the accords at every opportunity. And that's before they started a genocide in Gaza.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Two states based on 1967 borders. All settlements built since, gone (or handed over as homes for palestinians). Full international recognition of Palestine, all UN resolutions to be obeyed.
That's where I'd start, but like 'ceasefire now' it's just whistling in the wind.
That's where I'd start, but like 'ceasefire now' it's just whistling in the wind.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Why shouldn't everyone in the world get to decide everything?
It's an aspiration anyway.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Now that they've flattened the Gaza Strip, that doesn't work. I think the idea of two separate states living peacefully next to one another is long gone. And it is primarily Israel's responsibility that it is long gone. They would not allow it to happen.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I don't get to decide any of this. I just have an opinion. I don't like racist, theocratic states which actively since their inception have sought to marginalise, displace and dispossess large sections of their population. Israel as a concept and idea stinks. And as a reality on the ground in Gaza and the West Bank.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
These days the cunt works for Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting where he pushes antiSemitism and misogyny
UK professor suffered discrimination due to anti-Zionist beliefs, tribunal rules
University of Bristol academic who was sacked after being accused of antisemitic comments wins ‘landmark’ decisionwww.theguardian.com
Sounds fair
teqniq
DisMembered
The circumstances are entirely different. Japan was facing complete defeat in all-out war between 2 nations, Hamas and it's associates are not yet comprehensively beaten nor are they actually likely to be, such being the nature of asymmetric warfare.. There are reports online that they have resumed some services in the North and their armed wing continues to mount attacks against the IDF, but meanwhile Israel is actually using starvation as an instrument of ethnic cleansing, a war crime, all the while Western governments have suspended UNWRA funding on the say so of uncorroborated allegations the Israelis have made in a dossier that they have released to news outlets such as C4, the FT and Western governments who have taken it a face value (here I meant he latter, not so much the news outlets). Below is a screenshot from the linked archived FT piece:
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