Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[CH1]

I was about to say that's the first time I've been in agreement with a Governor of the Bank of England and then realised I'd got the wrong Montagu... so I won't.

The governor of the Bank of England was called Montagu Norman - and he was so powerful even Boris would not have got as look in (Montagu Norman was Governor of the Bank of England from 1920 - 1944).
There is a lot of word association about these days.

 

[Gramsci]

Head of Harvard may be sacked under pressure from politicians.

Claudine Gay: Pressure mounts on Harvard president to step down

But more than 500 faculty members urge Harvard to "resist political pressures" to force Dr Gay out.

www.bbc.com

What I object to in these reports. And it's not just BBC, is that the students were not calling for genocide of Jews.

What these politicians are doing is saying that "to the river to the sea" is anti semitism. That it is same as calling for genocide of Jews.

Better explained in Al Jazeera..

How are Harvard, Penn presidents responding to campus anti-Semitism row?

Harvard’s Claudine Gay and Penn’s Elizabeth Magill released statements a day after their heated Congress hearing.

www.aljazeera.com

• Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik, a Harvard alum and the college’s toughest critic on the panel, asserted that campus members call for the genocide of Jews when they chant phrases such as “from the river to the sea” and “Intifada” – a term she described as a “call for violent armed resistance” against Israel and Jews. Intifada is an Arabic word that translates to “uprising” and involves freedom from occupying powers.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I see the zionists have killed 13 of their own in friendly fire incidents. Unlucky for some

Thoughts and prayers.

 

[CH1]

For any Brixton residents:

Here is the English Mission Hospital in Jerusalem - architect Beresford Pite who also did Christ Church Brixton Road, St Saviours Herne Hill Road and the Anglican Cathedral in Namirembe, Uganda.
All to save souls. (Pre World War I)
Here is the account of this in the Jerusalem Post 2014 - which to me reads they are not grateful for the Church Missionary Society on their patch. A mission to heal
I guess that's understandable - but there again it's not as though Jerusalem ruled by Turkey was majority Jewish is it? Or is it?

 

[Pickman's model]

For any Brixton residents:
View attachment 404105
Here is the English Mission Hospital in Jerusalem - architect Beresford Pite who also did Christ Church Brixton Road, St Saviours Herne Hill Road and the Anglican Cathedral in Namirembe, Uganda.
All to save souls. (Pre World War I)
Here is the account of this in the Jerusalem Post 2014 - which to me reads they are not grateful for the Church Missionary Society on their patch. A mission to heal
I guess that's understandable - but there again it's not as though Jerusalem ruled by Turkey was majority Jewish is it? Or is it?

wikipedia comes to the rescue Demographic history of Jerusalem - Wikipedia: by 1922 jerusalem was majority jewish according to the census the british conducted that year

 

[hitmouse]

That is what I am getting at. There are many that believe the current situation is prophesied in their books and you can’t deny that, if my lazy Bible quotes are so dangerous to you, do you condemn the headbangers throwing them from planes to people they are killing?

Yes.
I think maybe where we differ is that I don't see religion as a particularly important explanation for all this - yes, there are certainly fundamentalist Jews among the Israeli leadership, but it's not like Biden, Starmer, Sunak and Modi share a faith with Netanyahu, and yet they're all willing to endorse the slaughter. Similarly, I'd see the companies that make and supply the planes to Israel as being deeply implicated in what's going on, but I don't think their boards of directors are any more religious than any other company directors. So other explanations are needed.

 

[hitmouse]

Anyway, a bit of good news:

In BDS win, PUMA forced to drop sponsorship of Israel Football Association

The Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel (PACBI), a founding part of the BDS movement, welcomes the news that PUMA won’t be renewing its contract with the Israel Footba

bdsmovement.net

Puma are denying the decision is BDS-related, but they would say that, they've definitely been a major target of BDS pressure - as mentioned in this thread, O'Neills stopped selling Puma over their Israeli football links, for instance.
Also, would be interested to see a bit more discussion of what the Gaza solidarity strike call looked like in various countries - I think in a lot of places it seems like it involved businesses voluntarily closing rather than workers withdrawing their labour, so a bit messy from a class point of view, but it's more than the nothing it could've been, pretty major step in terms of what the international solidarity movement looks like, eg:

New Jersey Arab Americans go on strike over Gaza: ‘The administration isn’t listening’

Paterson residents describe ‘anger, sadness, desperation’ after US vetoes UN resolution calling for ceasefire

www.theguardian.com

What is the global strike demanding ceasefire in Gaza?

Activists and grassroot organisations worldwide are striking on Monday to protest Israel’s bombardment of Gaza.

www.aljazeera.com

Did North African states join global Gaza strike?

In North Africa, brutal striking laws, political conflicts and the short-term announcement crumbled the workers' lines on the global strike day.

www.newarab.com

Global Strike Begins for a Gaza Ceasefire

In the West Bank, which is under military occupation by Israeli forces, nearly all commercial activity has shut down.

time.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes.
I think maybe where we differ is that I don't see religion as a particularly important explanation for all this - yes, there are certainly fundamentalist Jews among the Israeli leadership, but it's not like Biden, Starmer, Sunak and Modi share a faith with Netanyahu, and yet they're all willing to endorse the slaughter. Similarly, I'd see the companies that make and supply the planes to Israel as being deeply implicated in what's going on, but I don't think their boards of directors are any more religious than any other company directors. So other explanations are needed.

I think it's important to separate out a few things. The persecution of Jews in Europe was clearly the major driver of the settlement of Jews in Palestine in the decades before the creation of the state of Israel. The choice of Palestine as the place for Jews to move to was clearly influenced by religious traditions, historical traditions, myths and stories in the Bible. And those traditions remain important for many Israelis today.

And I think it's right to have a lot of sympathy for the descendants of Jews fleeing persecution who find themselves born into the Israeli state. Where else could they be expected to go? But that's where Belboid's earlier point comes in. Can you say that you have really settled somewhere when your group has displaced another group that your group is still actively oppressing? Looked at from an Israeli point of view, making a proper and just peace with Palestinians is the best way, perhaps the only way, for them to truly claim that they belong on that land. Justice for Palestinians also brings peace for Israelis. It is a tragedy that so few Israelis can see that.

 

[spring-peeper]

Not that is will make any difference

Joint Statement by the Prime Ministers of Australia, Canada and New Zealand

Australia, Canada and New Zealand mourn every Israeli and Palestinian innocent life which has been lost in this conflict and express our condolences to all families and communities affected by the violence.

www.pm.gc.ca

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm done with expressions of condolences to both sides. There is only one side doing all the killing. Has been for two months.

At this point, all that does is legitimise Israel's actions as at worst one side of a coin.

 

[teqniq]

Whilst I suspect that the IDF are doing this because they can it is also possible they are doing it because they are having real issues combatting Hamas fighters and this is their response.



Also human shields:

 

[kabbes]

Fucking hell, it’s proper fascist Nazi-style brutality, isn’t it?

 

[planetgeli]

Fucking hell, it’s proper fascist Nazi-style brutality, isn’t it?

Yes it fucking is. And the world watches on. Or at least Biden does.

So angry. No words.

 

[Pickman's model]

Whilst I suspect that the IDF are doing this because they can it is also possible they are doing it because they are having real issues combatting Hamas fighters and this is their response.

View attachment 404180 View attachment 404181

Also human shields:

Once again the post-heroic nature of the idf is clear

 

[planetgeli]

The heart of Gaza's southern city of Khan Younis has turned into a ghost town.

Israeli tanks have not yet reached here, but the IDF controls the area with intense fire.

Musa Al-Masri, who owns a cigarette shop on the main Jalal Street, told the BBC: "I miraculously escaped death when I tried to reach my shop in the central town. A quadcopter drone fired intensely at me. I took cover behind the wall and escaped through a side road. I did not see the Israeli forces, but I felt death everywhere."

The IDF says its ground, air, and naval forces are continuing "precise strikes on terror targets and infrastructure across the Gaza Strip, with over 250 terror targets struck over the last day".

............


Sick. Absolutely sick.

 

[planetgeli]

Khan Younis was the 'safe' area. Rafah is the new 'safe' area.

This is Rafah today.

 

[Chilli.s]

If this is a war, then these are war crimes

 

[Wilf]

I felt death everywhere.

Indeed, no fucking words.

 

[Pickman's model]

Indeed, no fucking words.

There's loads of words but the zionists have not the ears to listen

 

[Idris2002]

Re: the point by teqniq, concerning the real motives of the public humiliation of Gazans - the point that the resistance are punching above their weight and so on. A lot of chatter on the idiot web (my new name for X) is arguing that Israeli casualties are pretty bloody high, and higher than officially admitted.

I think that chatter may well be right. . . but I think the only result of that is that the civilian population will be hit even harder. . .

 

[PTK]

If this is a war, then these are war crimes

They are crimes against humanity. Crimes against humanity can happen without there actually being a war.

 

[teqniq]

Re: the point by teqniq, concerning the real motives of the public humiliation of Gazans - the point that the resistance are punching above their weight and so on. A lot of chatter on the idiot web (my new name for X) is arguing that Israeli casualties are pretty bloody high, and higher than officially admitted.

I think that chatter may well be right. . . but I think the only result of that is that the civilian population will be hit even harder. . .

Saw this earlier being reported on via X/Twitter:

Gaza: Israeli commanders among nine soldiers killed in Hamas ambush

Senior officer from Golani Brigade dies after failed attempt to rescue injured troops in Shejaiya area

www.theguardian.com

 

[teqniq]

Yet more journalists killed:

 

[teqniq]

Jeez, awful person:

 

[Flavour]

Only Israeli protests against the war can stop this. No international pressure can. There is too much money to be made selling them weapons.

 

[mojo pixy]

Israeli protests against the war are minuscule and sadly irrelevant just now. One day they may matter but the Israeli peace movement is .. well its taken as seriously inside Israel as you might imagine. See how seriously any peace movement is taken in the UK? So less than that.

Only concerted international effort can stop this, so we might as well wish for Superman.

 

[PTK]

Jeez, awful person:

She ought to be told by the government that her position is unacceptable.

 

[Idris2002]

Jeez, awful person:

 

[ska invita]

Only Israeli protests against the war can stop this. No international pressure can.

The US has...or to some degree had... a massive sway over all of this....at this point the Israeli state is tooled up and nothing will stop them, this is their dreams come true....meaningful local dissent will just result in imprisonment or worse like in Russia...the runway is clear...its all over....

I appreciate it sounds like an archetypal moan but its the US that has enabled this now, yesterday, and all along the bloody road. I blame the US more than I do the psychopaths in the Israeli government, its the US that are the ultimate enablers with real power here. This is the logical outcome of years of US foreign policy.

 

[ska invita]

I keep thinking about John Prescott he reckons he was tricked by Blair for going along with the invasion of Iraq...personally I dont buy it for a second, he had access to information we don't, i think he knew full well, but its interesting to think of all the establishment politicians and how many of them genuinely are thick fucks who did't really cotton on to what is happening here in Gaza..

as with so much of their politics its either ignorance or genuine deep down brutality. I wonder what the percentage split is. I think most of them are just murderous and heartless people at heart rather than naive fools in too deep.