It is really not that simple.
Nation words will not stop Israel.
Un resolutions will not stop Israel.
No-one and nothing will stop Israel.
Someone posted up really good article recently. Forget who
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Permissive airstrikes on non-military targets and the use of an AI system have enabled the Israeli army to carry out its deadliest war on Gaza.www.972mag.com
Owen Jones interviewed the writer of it.
One thing at end. Owen asks how his kind of journalism is going in Israel. He says viewpoint of Israelis like him is getting no coverage.
Criticism of IDF is a no no for most journalists.
The reporting of what is happening in Gaza is not the same as in outside Israel. That a lot of Israelis think IDF is not going in hard enough.
His only hope is international community stepping in and making a ceasefire.
He says part of reason he got the info he did is that some in IDF are not comfortable with way targets are chosen. Definitely a change. Now civilian casualties do not matter. Before this present war it was more targeted. With at least some consideration given to "collateral damage". Not now.
Worth a watch and not to long.
There's this as well: Worldwide protest/actions concerning events in Gaza/Palestine/IsraelI was on a demo in Calgary today:
View attachment 403860
Here is probably the wrong thread but the other one is for UK demos.
I mean, there's limitations to that formula, though. Are exiles/refugees/diasporas no longer part of a nation? If Israel succeeds in driving all surviving Palestinians into exile, will the Palestinian nation no longer exist? Imo, a nation is whatever nationalists say it is, I'm not convinced there's a standard of "real" nations that we can measure against."what happen 1947-1948 was a successful war of national liberation"
No, it was not. There was no Israeli Jewish nation in 1948. The people who fought the war on the Zionist side were overwhelmingly immigrants from Europe. Since 1948, an Israeli Jewish nation has come into existence, but prior to that it would be untrue to call it a nation.
A nation is an historically evolved group of people sharing a common language, a common culture, and a common territory.
Is there a missing word here? Mr someone?I think white European bourgeois posters here who single out Israel as uniquely different from other may have issues with Jews, consciously or unconsciously or more realistically haven't reflected enough upon their own attitudes. All or none of the adjectives above, by the way, may, by apply to you. They certainly define Mr
I think the 'r' was meant to be an 'e'Is there a missing word here? Mr someone?
I mean, on one hand that's true, there's no automatic link there, but on the other there have been at least three pretty open antisemites posting on this thread that I can think of, so that is something to bear in mind. (One currently on a site ban, one definitely not, I've not been keeping track closely enough to see if dwyer's banned from this one as well.) I think it's bollocks in general, but that line of argument does feel a bit more convincing when, within the last 24 hours, this thread has had people banging on about the expulsion of Jews from ancient Israel/Palestine.I think the 'r' was meant to be an 'e'
Accusing people who campaign for the Palestinian cause of having issues with Jews is as sensible as accusing people who campaigned against apartheid in South Africa of having issues with white people. It's bollocks.
Yes the US did that. So that should be cancelled. However unlikely, that answers your questionIt is a genuine question.
As for your response of stop supplying arms, it really does not matter if a country stops supplying arms.
The US of A just past a bill giving $14.5 billion for Israel military aid.
I mean, on one hand that's true, there's no automatic link there, but on the other there have been at least three pretty open antisemites posting on this thread that I can think of, so that is something to bear in mind. (One currently on a site ban, one definitely not, I've not been keeping track closely enough to see if dwyer's banned from this one as well.) I think it's bollocks in general, but that line of argument does feel a bit more convincing when, within the last 24 hours, this thread has had people banging on about the expulsion of Jews from ancient Israel/Palestine.
Begs the question what exactly are they planning on sanctioning, given that the only things currently allowed through the blockade are heavily monitored and entirely inadequate medical, water, food and fuel supplies. Wellwishes? Hot air? Pathetic delusions of grandeur going on here.“The swift adoption of this sanctions regime will enable us to send a strong political message about the EU’s commitment against Hamas and our solidarity with Israel,”
So, if you came across a house on fire, blazing away, you'd probably set the shed on fire as well? 'It was already burning, so what difference did my wee bit of arson make'?It is a genuine question.
As for your response of stop supplying arms, it really does not matter if a country stops supplying arms.
The US of A just past a bill giving $14.5 billion for Israel military aid.
It's not surprising that people ask questions like that sometimes, even if they could easily look it up themselves, when some Zionists bang on about the very same subject.I mean, on one hand that's true, there's no automatic link there, but on the other there have been at least three pretty open antisemites posting on this thread that I can think of, so that is something to bear in mind. (One currently on a site ban, one definitely not, I've not been keeping track closely enough to see if dwyer's banned from this one as well.) I think it's bollocks in general, but that line of argument does feel a bit more convincing when, within the last 24 hours, this thread has had people banging on about the expulsion of Jews from ancient Israel/Palestine.
Yes it fucking it is, it's bonkers. And "Zionists talk about it too" is no defence, it is in fact extremely easy to oppose a certain worldview without having to frame your thoughts through that worldview.It's not surprising that people ask questions like that sometimes, even if they could easily look it up themselves, when some Zionists bang on about the very same subject.
'theatre' best describes huge swathes of parliamentary politics these daysPathetic delusions of grandeur going on here.
Yes, quite a bold post!
Certainly bold selections with the spinners here. Thought they might go for bits and pieces all rounders but no. Very risky though, not a lot of experience at all there. Although it's not like there are obvious better options is it.
I didn't say it wasn't bonkers. I said it wasn't surprising.Yes it fucking it is, it's bonkers. And "Zionists talk about it too" is no defence, it is in fact extremely easy to oppose a certain worldview without having to frame your thoughts through that worldview.
Well, maybe be a bit more active about dealing with them then?But again, people or person? And if it is people, is it a whole brigade of the BNP we can't possibly deal with?
Is anyone on here actually arguing that though? AFAIK, this argument is about comments from tim, who thinks that the "settler state" framing is exceptionalist and (potentially?) antisemitic. I don't think that, I think it's probably quite an accurate framing, but I also think the theoretical framework you use is less interesting/important than the actual political goals you want to achieve. And tim's take on that seems quite reasonable to me:Tarring the whole issue with 'you must be anti-semitic' does a real injustice to those, the 99%, who don't 'have a problem' with Jews.
So tim clearly isn't saying that it's antisemitic to want the Israelis to stop murdering in Gaza and the West Bank and to want the Israeli ethnostate replaced by a unitary state with full rights for Palestinians.This means getting the Israelis to stop murdering in Gaza and the West Bank, and n the longer the creation of two viable states or maybe the more idealistic but, perhaps, increasingly more viable pluralistic unitary state.
Yes, quite a bold post!
Well, maybe be a bit more active about dealing with them then?
Well, maybe be a bit more active about dealing with them then?
Is anyone on here actually arguing that though? AFAIK, this argument is about comments from tim, who thinks that the "settler state" framing is exceptionalist and (potentially?) antisemitic. I don't think that, I think it's probably quite an accurate framing, but I also think the theoretical framework you use is less interesting/important than the actual political goals you want to achieve. And tim's take on that seems quite reasonable to me:
So tim clearly isn't saying that it's antisemitic to want the Israelis to stop murdering in Gaza and the West Bank and to want the Israeli ethnostate replaced by a unitary state with full rights for Palestinians.
Sorry to hear about your personal situation. I put people on ignore because they are either bell-ends or tedious RS (LFC) supporters, and sometimes both of course. I have hitmouse on ignore (cant now remember why) and suggest you follow suit rather than ignore serious postersThat sounds personal. I've had a fucking shit year, my gf is dead and I'm not on here or in the right headspace to deal with shit I'd hope wasn't beyond you.
In fact, it's comments like that that make me want to fuck off from here more than 1 or 2 blatantly dodgy posts other people could easily deal with.
Honestly, if that was personal, then fuck you too.
Yeah this is out of line. Demanding that other posters 'deal with things'? From what I've seen, when someone has been abusive or posted links from dodgy sources, there have been plenty of people intervening.Well, maybe be a bit more active about dealing with them then?
Dwyer and whythethingy were dealt with quite vociferously. I can't make out whether Boris' posts make any sense at all, they're so incoherent, like many of his other posts on other threads.Well, maybe be a bit more active about dealing with them then?
Which makes his belief that referring to a settler state = antisemitism even more bizarre. And deeply unpleasant.So tim clearly isn't saying that it's antisemitic to want the Israelis to stop murdering in Gaza and the West Bank and to want the Israeli ethnostate replaced by a unitary state with full rights for Palestinians.
Apologies - I think I had seen that thread but forgot that it was you. Not trying to have a personal go at you or to contribute to the shittiness of your year at all.That sounds personal. I've had a fucking shit year, my gf is dead and I'm not on here or in the right headspace to deal with shit I'd hope wasn't beyond you.
In fact, it's comments like that that make me want to fuck off from here more than 1 or 2 blatantly dodgy posts other people could easily deal with.
Honestly, if that was personal, then fuck you too.
If anyone's interested, it's cos I made fun of an imperialist nepotism baby who's dad's mates with the Clintons. Not very important in the grand scheme of things, but there you go.I have hitmouse on ignore (cant now remember why) and suggest you follow suit rather than ignore serious posters
All three of those people had conflated the state of Israel with "Jews" as a general category. That's the logic of Zionists and antisemites, and I don't think any of those posters are Zionists.Yeah this is out of line. Demanding that other posters 'deal with things'? From what I've seen, when someone has been abusive or posted links from dodgy sources, there have been plenty of people intervening.
It is also the case that not everyone is going to agree about who is or is not an antisemite, open or otherwise. I suspect that there is at least one poster here who you think falls into that category who I don't. Being out of order with people and even posting links from dodgy sources don't automatically make you an antisemite.
Yeah, I accept the general point that the early-to-mid twentieth century (in fact, probably all of it) saw plenty of states formed by processes that involved massacres, ethnic cleansing, resettling and so on, and I think it is important to see Israel as being mostly a product of the same forces of capitalism, imperialism, etc that shape the rest of the world, not some ahistorical evil from outside it, BUT I think the majority of those states were formed with a population that was mostly people already living in the region, not mostly people arriving from outside and pushing the previous population out, so it does make sense to use a different category to refer to Israel as opposed to Greece or Pakistan. I think, not an expert on comparative state formation or anything though.Which makes his belief that referring to a settler state = antisemitism even more bizarre. And deeply unpleasant.
That sounds personal. I've had a fucking shit year, my gf is dead and I'm not on here or in the right headspace to deal with shit I'd hope wasn't beyond you.
In fact, it's comments like that that make me want to fuck off from here more than 1 or 2 blatantly dodgy posts other people could easily deal with.
Honestly, if that was personal, then fuck you too.