I think this is is a very difficult question with no easy answers. They were born there and may have known nothing else. So to call them settlers may feel wrong. But next door are refugees who were born stateless and have known nothing else, whose ancestors used to live where you are now. What do you do when you know that history?Changing track again do you consider third or fourth generation Israelis be they of European, Asian or African ancestry as colonial settlers? I'm interested in your views rather than Pappe's.
I think white European bourgeois posters here who single out Israel as uniquely different from other may have issues with Jews, consciously or unconsciously or more realistically haven't reflected enough upon their own attitudes. All or none of the adjectives above, by the way, may, by apply to you. They certainly define Mr
Maybe some here are projecting their own sense of guilt about the colonial history of the state they were born in. It's easy to blame the Israelis of today for the brutality of Britain's colonial past.
Changing track again do you consider third or fourth generation Israelis be they of European, Asian or African ancestry as colonial settlers? I'm interested in your views rather than Pappe's.
This bit is just bollocks. I guess Jews Against Apartheid have issues with themselves?I think white European bourgeois posters here who single out Israel as uniquely different from other may have issues with Jews, consciously or unconsciously or more realistically haven't reflected enough upon their own attitudes.
I think white European bourgeois posters here who single out Israel as uniquely different from other may have issues with Jews, consciously or unconsciously or more realistically haven't reflected enough upon their own attitudes. All or none of the adjectives above, by the way, may, by apply to you. They certainly define Mr
Maybe some here are projecting their own sense of guilt about the colonial history of the state they were born in. It's easy to blame the Israelis of today for the brutality of Britain's colonial past.
Changing track again do you consider third or fourth generation Israelis be they of European, Asian or African ancestry as colonial settlers? I'm interested in your views rather than Pappe's.
It'd be around the time the people who were displaced were allowed full and equal legal rights, imo. Still a way to go there in the case of Israel and Palestine.I think this is is a very difficult question with no easy answers. They were born there and may have known nothing else. So to call them settlers may feel wrong. But next door are refugees who were born stateless and have known nothing else, whose ancestors used to live where you are now. What do you do when you know that history?
So you're arguing the crimes of 1948 on are the responsibility of the political elites. Presumably then the crimes of 1947/48 then weren't. Whose responsibility were they? You don't address the question of who bears responsibility for the political trajectory of the zionist entity since 2006 or 1993. Is the political trajectory of the ze since withdrawal from gaza or the Oslo accords a crime or series of crimes? Are the political elites as you suggest floating above millions of dupes who inhabit the ze? You've a really fucked up attitude towards 'democracy' which is obvious to anyone who reads your post even if not to youThe state has existed since 1948. The crimes from that point on are the responsibility of the political elites. That includes the colonisation of the West Bank and the countless crimes in Gaza that have occurred since the Six Day War.
I see no point in blaming ordinary Israelis for being Israelis or Palestinians for being Palestinians. And of course people often vote for cunts, particularly when they feel threatened. That is why Likud and Hamas have political power and why we have the shits that we do in the UK.
This bit is just bollocks. I guess Jews Against Apartheid have issues with themselves?
yes, that sounds fair.It'd be around the time the people who were displaced were allowed full and equal legal rights, imo. Still a way to go there in the case of Israel and Palestine.
I think white European bourgeois posters here who single out Israel as uniquely different from other may have issues with Jews, consciously or unconsciously or more realistically haven't reflected enough upon their own attitudes. All or none of the adjectives above, by the way, may, by apply to you. They certainly define Mr
Maybe some here are projecting their own sense of guilt about the colonial history of the state they were born in. It's easy to blame the Israelis of today for the brutality of Britain's colonial past.
Changing track again do you consider third or fourth generation Israelis be they of European, Asian or African ancestry as colonial settlers? I'm interested in your views rather than Pappe's.
In defence of formulaic anti-political anarchism, it's not as though anyone else actually has plausible realistic solutions to the immediate pressing problems either. I mean, I think there are things that we can do to get towards a situation where those problems might seem a bit less impossible, which is why I'm part of the same movement as the people waving national flags. But the choice to wave a flag certainly doesn't get us anywhere by itself, waving a flag or not waving a flag is a pretty abstract piece of symbolism either way.
Also, unrelated to the above and hopefully goes without saying, but obviously Dystopiary is a good, thoughtful and appreciated poster and WLT is a really fucking toxic one on this subject.
some are:Symbolism is good actually. Walking home Friday night I saw three separate houses with Palestinian flags on them. It draws people's attention and gets them thinking and to be honest a lot of people are not paying attention.
It’s quite amusing really.Fucking hell. That went in a direction I wasn't expecting.
So you're arguing the crimes of 1948 on are the responsibility of the political elites. Presumably then the crimes of 1947/48 then weren't. Whose responsibility were they? You don't address the question of who bears responsibility for the political trajectory of the zionist entity since 2006 or 1993. Is the political trajectory of the ze since withdrawal from gaza or the Oslo accords a crime or series of crimes? Are the political elites as you suggest floating above millions of dupes who inhabit the ze? You've a really fucked up attitude towards 'democracy' which is obvious to anyone who reads your post even if not to you
More mere blather.
I think I've argued elsewhere on this thread that what happen 1947-1948 was a successful war of national liberation. Maybe the wrong side won. The conditions that led to that victory being possible was a consequence of British colonial policy and the opportunities it gave Jews fleeing persecution in Europe during the second quarter of twentieth century.
Israelis have by and large over the past forty years voted for those, mainly the right, who promise them security, which until last month they could claim to gave done. That doesn't surprise me any more than it does anywhere else. The Oslo accords failed because they left to much power in the hands of Israel, even though they got Rabin murdered, and not enough in the hands of the Palestinians. Plenty said (in my case mostly Robert Fisk) that at the time, and I assumed that they were being too pessimistic, clearly they weren't. Edward Said called them the Palestinian Versailles.
Fair enough!More mere blather
Indeed. Very biblical.Fucking hell. That went in a direction I wasn't expecting.
Let he who is without sin cast the first ladder?Indeed. Very biblical.
Oh.... my.The "Settler State" line is veiled form of Judeophobia.
This is a nice gesture.
I had not heard of the Ramallah Friends School before:
Exactly, that's a crashing hole in your argument tim . And fuck off with your accusations of antisemitism.Strange how you talk of no Israeli jew under 90 bearing any responsibility for the creation of the state but you say nary a word about responsibility for the trajectory of the state over the past say 17 years let alone the period since the Oslo accords
You have interesting points to make. But how about you stop accusing other posters of being antisemitic? Maybe then we could have a decent discussion. You seem to want to sabotage that..
I think I've argued elsewhere on this thread that what happen 1947-1948 was a successful war of national liberation. Maybe the wrong side won. The conditions that led to that victory being possible was a consequence of British colonial policy and the opportunities it gave Jews fleeing persecution in Europe during the second quarter of twentieth century.
Israelis have by and large over the past forty years voted for those, mainly the right, who promise them security, which until last month they could claim to gave done. That doesn't surprise me any more than it does anywhere else. The Oslo accords failed because they left to much power in the hands of Israel, even though they got Rabin murdered, and not enough in the hands of the Palestinians. Plenty said (in my case mostly Robert Fisk) that at the time, and I assumed that they were being too pessimistic, clearly they weren't. Edward Said called them the Palestinian Versailles.
some are: