Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
They’ve ramped up to replace those already. Stockpiles won’t be an issue.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
He said in blatant disregard of all the reports
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I disagree, I think we are probably one incident away from sponsoring a ceasefire resolution and probably not many more incidents away from diplomatic ties being affected.
Sunak, Starmer and the rest may profess to back Israel but their problem is that, according to the very limited polling put out (which itself should be a big clue), the public does not and all these horrors inflicted on Gaza is making backing Israel in this war even less popular a position. That is before the impact of supporting Israel in this - like increased energy prices, more inflation etc - might become apparent, or the public as a whole learns of what Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, Smotrich and the rest are actually doing.
All it will take is one incident that captures the attention of the British public to wash away the mound of sand that Sunak et al are stood on, and they will have no choice but to switch.
Eric Jarvis
Well-Known Member
Most obvious examples. Qatar and Bahrain have ended the Kafala indentured Labour system, in the former case because FIFA brought in the ILO to negotiate it in the run up to the World Cup, in the latter case because they didn't use it all that much compared to many of their neighbours. Qatar has never had a death sentence for homosexuality. Egypt has and still uses it. Seven nations have the death penalty for homosexuality, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Uganda. Iran and Saudi Arabia were the only ones in which such executions took place in 2020. Egypt have also done so since then. The complication is that in most Muslim countries, and in some non-Muslim nations (including the UK) Sharia Law can be used to settle a case if all participants agree to it. In Sharia the penalty for adultery (which necessarily includes any homosexual act in a nation that doesn't allow gay marriage) is stoning to death. So if somebody agreed to face trial under Sharia and risk being stoned to death then a death sentence for homosexuality is technically possible but never happens. To add to that a lot of Muslim nations specifically forbid stoning to death in any circumstances, Qatar and Brunei being examples. However only Iran and Qatar are the "bad guys" in this respect.
Generally which regimes are attacked for their record on human rights has damn all to do with human rights at all, it's basically all about geopolitics. With a big dose of Islamophobia and racism.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Could be. They have given themselves an 'out' in that they stress Israel's 'right to defend herself [sic]'. They can always declare that what Israel is doing is no longer self-defence.
I had been avoiding my usual routine of listening to BBC World Service until yesterday. Listening for a couple of hours yesterday, it was notable how they are handling this. Their BBC-style 'balance' appears to involve mentioning the 7 October atrocities at regular intervals while reporting on the latest carnage in Gaza. If they have testimony from a grieving Palestinian, they 'balance' it with testimony from a grieving Israeli. But 7 October is already nearly a month ago. Not sure how long that strategy can be kept up. (The underlying premise behind such 'balance' is hateful, mind you. Not sure they realise that. They're implicitly justifying Israeli actions as in some way proportionate.)
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Both sides are using terror and causing terror with, fwiw, Israel doing and causing more of it at the moment. Selective designations of terrorist don't really help frame this conflict. And I say that, if it needs to be said, finding the attacks of the 7th vile and disgusting.
Everything in this conflict follows from and fits into a history that we all know too well. That doesn't take away agency every time each side launches a wave of terror, but calling one side terrorists is a way of deflecting from that obvious bigger picture.
I think it is now clear that this is the start of a genocide, in common parlance terms and in legal terms.
www.reuters.com
UN experts say ceasefire needed as Palestinians at 'grave risk of genocide'
A group of independent United Nations experts called on Thursday for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, saying time was running out for Palestinians there who are at "grave risk of genocide".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Glad you've caught upI think it is now clear that this is the start of a genocide, in common parlance terms and in legal terms.
UN experts say ceasefire needed as Palestinians at 'grave risk of genocide'
A group of independent United Nations experts called on Thursday for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, saying time was running out for Palestinians there who are at "grave risk of genocide".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
twistedAM
Left Of The Dial
Sounded like fanboy speak. I'll trust the financial and business reports over a random.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I'd trust Boris Johnson over kid eternity any day of the week
johnwesley
Member
The FT said today that Hamas are more Viet Cong than ISIS and this footage appears to bear that out and shows a Hamas fighter getting out of a tunnel & placing an IED on IDF Merkava tank.
He then fires 105mm Al-Yassin anti-tank shell at another tank or APC. After all done, he gets back to the apparent safety of a tunnel. IDF may well have walked into a well-prepared trap and one for which
they are ill-suited. Hamas maybe counting at some point the Israeli casualty count counts a some sort of 'win'. No gore in the video.
Allegedly Hamas armed wing claimed in a statement that they destroyed 6 Israeli tanks, two troop carriers, and a bulldozer today. @ragipsoylu
.
He then fires 105mm Al-Yassin anti-tank shell at another tank or APC. After all done, he gets back to the apparent safety of a tunnel. IDF may well have walked into a well-prepared trap and one for which
they are ill-suited. Hamas maybe counting at some point the Israeli casualty count counts a some sort of 'win'. No gore in the video.
Allegedly Hamas armed wing claimed in a statement that they destroyed 6 Israeli tanks, two troop carriers, and a bulldozer today. @ragipsoylu
.
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Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
Been thinking for a bit about what a humanitarian pause means and decided it’s the equivalent of punching someone in the face and giving them a nose bleed, handing them a quarter of a tissue, then as they go to dab their bleeding nose going back to punching them again.
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LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Naming the victims and mapping the massacre of 7th October.
oct7map.com
Mapping the Massacres
Explore a geovisualization that depicts the atrocities committed by Hamas in Israel on October 7th. It portrays the scale of impact on towns, families, and civilians. Share this map to help raise awareness about the consequences of this tragic day.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Been watching this. Curious to see what Barnaby Raine says. Barnaby is 110 % anti Zionist Jew.
The section starting at 37.41 features discusssion about the Liverpool street protest.
The Centre / Right/ NGOS criticised it for not making London not feel safe for Jews.
Martin walker pointed out one banner said Jews against Genocide. So some Jews did feel safe at protest.
A lot of the opposition from the centre and right is done in the language of multiculturalism where these protests are making some people not feel "safe"
Its worth watching Barnaby. Talks a hundred miles an hour and put a case as a Jew that the real Jewish tradition is defending Universal values not the nation state values of Zionism
Will try attempt here to summarise his views. The guy is so bright and fast Im sure to get a bit wrong.
It cuts to the Jewish experience of being treated as an "Other" whatever society they live in.
For him the rise of Zionism was retrograde step for Jews. And continues to be one.
For him the Jewish historical experience in Europe was centuries of being treated as the "Other" . That it was against Jewish Europeans that racist language was honed. This language later being used against people colonised by European Empires.
So I take it he is saying anti semitism was pre cursor to the anti black racism that supported Empire.
A reaction to that was that the Jewish history gave Jews experience to oppose all form of "othering" and to support transcending this for universal freedom
He says:
Do not mistrust a stranger , for you once were a stranger in a strange land"
So in the case of the Liverpool street protest this analysis means its obvious Jews would turn up to support Palestinians. Who are subject to othering and Colonialism.
On Zionism historically - he say its an attempt for Jews to enter Whiteness. From being part of the coalition of the losers to the winners. Herzl was in his view once an assimulationist then deciding that the only way for Jews to become good Europeans was to leave Europe and become successful colonists.
That is try to join the club of racist European imperialism - enter whiteness and have a nation state.
He argues that the Jewish experience of oppression can also lead ( not to aping Whiteness in form of own colonial movement- Zionism) but to yearn for universal freedom.
He puts forward best argument I've seen from a Jewish point of view to oppose Zionism and support Palestinians.
And more profoundly that the Jewish experience is and can be progressive not just for Jews but for the ultimate liberation of all people.
To add imo what he is talking about is the foundations for solidarity rather than freedom narrowed down to a nationalist state. Which only gives freedom to a section at expense of others.
Universal Freedom is what he is talking about.
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planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Damage in northern Gaza. Source satellite data from Copernicus.
Strikes in 'safe' southern Gaza.
Tens of thousands of buildings in Gaza, including at least a quarter of all buildings in northern Gaza, appear damaged or destroyed, according to an analysis of satellite imagery. The assessment offers a newly detailed picture of the widespread devastation caused by the Israeli bombardment of Gaza in the past several weeks.
Between 38,200 and 44,500 buildings throughout the Gaza Strip are estimated to have been damaged or destroyed since the beginning of the war, according to the analysis, by two researchers, Jamon Van Den Hoek of Oregon State University and Corey Scher of CUNY Graduate Center.
The analysis includes damage from the beginning of the war until Sunday, before a strike hit a densely populated residential area in Jabaliya on Tuesday.
ska invita
back on the other side
from the horses mouth - this is pretty special
refreshing to hear an honest politician
refreshing to hear an honest politician
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
That's heart rending.Naming the victims and mapping the massacre of 7th October.
Mapping the Massacres
Explore a geovisualization that depicts the atrocities committed by Hamas in Israel on October 7th. It portrays the scale of impact on towns, families, and civilians. Share this map to help raise awareness about the consequences of this tragic day.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yes. I've avoided this place and this thread especially for a while, but wanted to post that as I found it the same.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
To the River to the Sea keeps cropping up a stick to beat those who go on demos.
Just learnt that Likud party platform had this:
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Learn something new everyday.
I'm sure will be told Likud have moved on since then. But as Palestinians and those on recent demos keep being given stick for using it thought I'd post this up
Just learnt that Likud party platform had this:
Original Party Platform of the Likud Party
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Learn something new everyday.
I'm sure will be told Likud have moved on since then. But as Palestinians and those on recent demos keep being given stick for using it thought I'd post this up
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
To the River to the Sea keeps cropping up a stick to beat those who go on demos.
Just learnt that Likud party platform had this:
Original Party Platform of the Likud Party
Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
Learn something new everyday.
I'm sure will be told Likud have moved on since then. But as Palestinians and those on recent demos keep being given stick for using it thought I'd post this up
I've been wanting to mention this for days but I thought it'd just cause trouble, so thanks for finding it. Yes, 'from the jordan to the sea' is not and has never been a uniquely Palestinian sentiment.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Was watching Barnaby Raine on Novara Media. He mentioned it. In relation to two state solution. Which he ( in line with many Palestinians) thinks is something centrist politicians drop in when really supporting Israel. It's never going to happen. It's an in his word alibi when supporting Israel.
Barnaby Raine makes things so clear. Great speaker
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
As a concept it makes no sense, but I do think that if it was ever brought in there would be real pressure to not start shooting afterwards.
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