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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

agricola said:
I disagree, I think we are probably one incident away from sponsoring a ceasefire resolution and probably not many more incidents away from diplomatic ties being affected.

Sunak, Starmer and the rest may profess to back Israel but their problem is that, according to the very limited polling put out (which itself should be a big clue), the public does not and all these horrors inflicted on Gaza is making backing Israel in this war even less popular a position. That is before the impact of supporting Israel in this - like increased energy prices, more inflation etc - might become apparent, or the public as a whole learns of what Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, Smotrich and the rest are actually doing.

All it will take is one incident that captures the attention of the British public to wash away the mound of sand that Sunak et al are stood on, and they will have no choice but to switch.
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Why would Sunak change his mind? he doesn't exactly have a record for it on other issues many of which effect people a lot more personally than this? I'm sure by now his advisors have realised that the people marching for Palestine are not exactly a key Tory demographic. But let's assume for the moment he does and that the UK sponsors a Security Council resolution demanding a ceasefire. The US will veto it and nothing will happen. However it will sour Sunak's relationship with whoever is US President for the rest of his premiership. Whoever replaces Sunak will have to work hard to build bridges (Why do you think Starmer is taking the position he is?)
As for not dealing with Elbit just no I'm afraid. The global arms industry is a massive hydra with interconnecting tentacles everywhere and we are a major player with 10's of Billions of £'s and 100,000's of jobs tied up in it. Almost all major defence initiatives are multi-company, multi-national affairs usually American led. There is no way we could squeeze Israel out without withdrawing ourselves from these programs and accepting massive consequences for the economy and defence concerns of this country. Not going to happen because a few people are chucking slates off roofs.
So why would Sunak go down this route? because he's a good person and is moved by footage on Al-Jazeira?
 
MickiQ said:
Why would Sunak change his mind? he doesn't exactly have a record for it on other issues many of which effect people a lot more personally than this? I'm sure by now his advisors have realised that the people marching for Palestine are not exactly a key Tory demographic. But let's assume for the moment he does and that the UK sponsors a Security Council resolution demanding a ceasefire. The US will veto it and nothing will happen. However it will sour Sunak's relationship with whoever is US President for the rest of his premiership. Whoever replaces Sunak will have to work hard to build bridges (Why do you think Starmer is taking the position he is?)
As for not dealing with Elbit just no I'm afraid. The global arms industry is a massive hydra with interconnecting tentacles everywhere and we are a major player with 10's of Billions of £'s and 100,000's of jobs tied up in it. Almost all major defence initiatives are multi-company, multi-national affairs usually American led. There is no way we could squeeze Israel out without withdrawing ourselves from these programs and accepting massive consequences for the economy and defence concerns of this country. Not going to happen because a few people are chucking slates off roofs.
So why would Sunak go down this route? because he's a good person and is moved by footage on Al-Jazeira?
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America.
 
Yossarian said:
That's pretty fucked up, are they the GB News of Israel?
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Yes.

Their main presenter was a Jewish Home Knesset member. JH are the far-right group to which Naftali Bennet belongs. It was also the group to which Bezalel Smotrich (Israeli Finance Minister who self describes as a fascist) belonged, tho it wasn't quite extreme enough for him, so he left.
 
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Pickman's model said:
is this one of those far-right sites we're always told not to link to?
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Not a rule I particularly agree with. Got a claim? give a source people can check for themselves. Reposting a DM/GBN article because it happens to be the most salacious, sure, that's shit. But 'X said X fucked up thing, here's what they said, here's where they said it' really don't see the issue. Provide a screenshot (and written description) if possible so that people don't have to click through. I'll change the formatting a bit to reduce emphasis on the link.
 
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Cid said:
Not a rule I particularly agree with. Got a claim? give a source people can check for themselves. Reposting a DM/GBN article because it happens to be the most salacious, sure, that's shit. But 'X said X fucked up thing, here's what they said, here's where they said it' really don't see the issue. Provide a screenshot (and written description) if possible so that people don't have to click through. I'll change the formatting a bit to reduce emphasis on the link.
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don't take it up with me, take it up with editor
 
Here is the HRW report.

Read some of the summary.

People can argue the "what aboutery " of what is or is not Apartheid. The implication of this line of argument is that Israel is being unfairly picked on. I don't see how this argument helps.

The basic thing that comes across in this report is that Israel discriminates against the people whose land they stole in 48. This isn't just about this particular right wing government. Discrimination has being going on in the OPT for decades It's multi faceted and been built up since Israel was founded. Changing over time. But overall purpose is to make sure Palestinians cannot have equality of rights with Jews.

Israel state is built on and continues to function as a state that depends on discrimination in order that one group Jews can have privileged access to land and citizenship rights. That's putting it mildly.

Quote from report:

On the basis of its research, Human Rights Watch concludes that the Israeli government has demonstrated an intent to maintain the domination of Jewish Israelis over Palestinians across Israel and the OPT. In the OPT, including East Jerusalem, that intent has been coupled with systematic oppression of Palestinians and inhumane acts committed against them. When these three elements occur together, they amount to the crime of apartheid.
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www.hrw.org

A Threshold Crossed

The 213-page report, “A Threshold Crossed: Israeli Authorities and the Crimes of Apartheid and Persecution,” examines Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It presents the present-day reality of a single authority, the Israeli government, ruling primarily over the area between the Jordan River and...
www.hrw.org www.hrw.org

If people are happy with that fair enough.

I don't think much of it myself.
 
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Bingoman said:
Sounds like his just declared?
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The translators words 'constructive ambiguity' sounded more like it. Wouldnt take any options or threats off the table in public, said what happens will depend on events in Gaza and on the Lebanese border.
 
Spent quite a while admitting that they wanted to keep their enemies guessing. With built in excuses for not escalating now, no doubt to justify their failure to escalate so far to those who are calling for them to escalate and are angry that they havent gone further.

I'm glad I dont have to listen to this shit very often, no American hubris in paradise he said earlier, but he is more than capable of compensating for that on earth.
 
jsut read on twitter he said "to those who say will you fight, i answer we are already fighting"
sounds like a blag to get people off his case to go to full scale war
 
No, he's a cowardly blustering cunt. Hours of nonsense about how Israel is so weak, the Palestinians brave and an inspiration... infact so brave they'll sit this one out for the moment thank you very much.

Years of spouting death to the Jews and USA, and it comes to him bottling it at a critical time. Shit at his best thing.
 
From the Irish Times today:

"There are unconfirmed reports that Israeli officials, from the prime minister down, have begun to seriously consider the option of allowing members of Hamas’s military wing and its leadership safe passage out of the Gaza Strip in exchange for freeing the hostages and allowing for a non-Hamas regime to be established in Gaza."

www.irishtimes.com

Israeli forces enter Gaza City as foreign nationals flee

Israel Defence Forces say they have sealed off the city and are closing in on Hamas’s military and centres of power
www.irishtimes.com www.irishtimes.com

Would that it were so. . . this reads like someone deliberately deluding themselves.
 
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