Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[kabbes]

You better gear up for a lot of public declarations of condemnation, Spy. There’s a whole lot of them about to be needed, plus you’ve got a lot of years to make up for. After all, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite. All that matters is to give the loudest performance of how much you’re anti-killing, right? That’s how it works? And the bigger the killing and the more innocent the victims, the more you need to muscle your way to the front of the condemnation queue?

 

[A380]

I was waiting to see who would first bring up the collective punishment of Israel cutting off the services in response …
….Congratulations. It's a shame this didn't seem to be a consideration for Hamas.

Sadly it was probably one of the key objectives of the (Qatar based) Hamas leadership. It’s a rational, decision to.

 

[Spymaster]

hmm when this goes unreported everyday toward the Palestinian, you got the ponder the humanity of the right who are not busy condemning Israel

I agree with this.

Let's give it some time to find out who they are and lay into them. I'll be right there with you.

 

[JimW]

It's easy for a fascist death cult to thrive in the conditions supplied by Gaza. Not providing them that would seem the easiest way out.

 

[MickiQ]

Is this going to change anything other than the body count?

Nope but that is going to be horrific no matter how this finally plays out.

 

[Spymaster]

You better gear up for a lot of public declarations of condemnation, Spy. There’s a whole lot of them about to be needed, plus you’ve got a lot of years to make up for. After all, I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite.

Whereas your own priorities are straightforwardly fucked in the first place. I, along with most right-thinking people have been a huge critic of the Israeli state for many years.

Your ignorant comments regarding condemnation place you firmly in the "not worth speaking to" bracket.

 

[kabbes]

Whereas your own priorities are straightforwardly fucked in the first place. I, along with most right-thinking people have been a huge critic of the Israeli state for many years.

Do you condemn Israel?

 

[Spymaster]

Do you condemn Israel?

For what?

 

[teqniq]

4 of the Gaza hostages already been killed in airstrikes apparently. I have to say I'm not optimistic about many of them making it out alive at the moment. I can see why the Qataris want to move fast.

A little surprised that no-one has mentioned The Hannibal directive yet. In these circumstances one may wonder whether it applies to civilian hostages as well.

 

[JimW]

Does the cutting off of food and water imply a reluctance to go in with more IDF casualties however asymmetrical or is it just the prelude?

 

[Raheem]

I agree with this.

Let's give it some time to find out who they are and lay into them. I'll be right there with you.

Oh, so you perceive in imbalance in how much attention is paid to Palestinian tragedies compared to Israeli tragedies?

How might this terrible state of things not be worsened?

 

[kabbes]

For what?

For the deaths and injuries they have inflicted. Remember that graph from earlier? Killings and injuries of Palestinians by Israel is larger than the other way round by a factor of at least ten. Do you condemn them for it? What is the difference between being “critical” of Israel for their own killing of civilians and “condemning” Hamas for theirs? What does it take for “critical” to become “condemnation”?

 

[PTK]

A little surprised that no-one has mentioned The Hannibal directive yet. In these circumstances one may wonder whether it applies to civilian hostages as well.

Thanks for this. I had not heard of it before. So, the IDF is not shy about engandering its own troops?

 

[Brayfart]

No one is ever dragged on to the news and told they can't have an opinion on the Palestinians unless they clearly condemn Israel first.

 

[Aladdin]

What I kind of find really difficult to get my head around is that Hamas did this knowing full well the kind of response Israel would make.
It's deliberately extremely violent with videos of beheadings. This attack is massively designed to provoke an extreme response from Israel.
Its almost as if they're goading Israel. With Iran involved and their nuclear capabilities it's bound to terrify every normal thinking person in the region...Palestinian and Iranian.

 

[Pickman's model]

What I kind of find really difficult to get my head around is that Hamas did this knowing full well the kind of response Israel would make.
It's deliberately extremely violent with videos of beheadings. This attack is massively designed to provoke an extreme response from Israel.
Its almost as if they're goading Israel. With Iran involved and their nuclear capabilities it's bound to terrify every normal thinking person in the region...Palestinian and Iranian.

i certainly didn't expect this in the run-up to 2025

 

[PR1Berske]

For the deaths and injuries they have inflicted. Remember that graph from earlier? Killings and injuries of Palestinians by Israel is larger than the other way round by a factor of at least ten. Do you condemn them for it? What is the difference between being “critical” of Israel for their own killing of civilians and “condemning” Hamas for theirs? What does it take for “critical” to become “condemnation”?

Is the use of a particular word enough to satisfy you?

 

[JimW]

What I kind of find really difficult to get my head around is that Hamas did this knowing full well the kind of response Israel would make.
It's deliberately extremely violent with videos of beheadings. This attack is massively designed to provoke an extreme response from Israel.
Its almost as if they're goading Israel. With Iran involved and their nuclear capabilities it's bound to terrify every normal thinking person in the region...Palestinian and Iranian.

I don't think they're necessarily playing some 4-D chess, perhaps they just really are pissed off about the things they say they are and are reckless and bloody enough to do this about it for want of anything better.

 

[The39thStep]

Blimey , 73 Israeli soldiers and 37 police killed so far

 

[Raheem]

I don't think they're necessarily playing some 4-D chess, perhaps they just really are pissed off about the things they say they are and are reckless and bloody enough to do this about it for want of anything better.

There's an in-between option where they have undertaken some sort of strategic planning with what resources they have.

 

[teqniq]

Thanks for this. I had not heard of it before. So, the IDF is not shy about engandering its own troops?

If you read the wiki it clearly states that "an IDF soldier was "better dead than abducted".

 

[Spymaster]

For the deaths and injuries they have inflicted. Remember that graph from earlier? Killings and injuries of Palestinians by Israel is larger than the other way round by a factor of at least ten. Do you condemn them for it?

Absolutely, 100%.

Now where has that got you?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I was waiting to see who would first bring up the collective punishment of Israel cutting off the services in response to the massacre of 250 of their kids, the rape of multiple women and girls, and the hostage taking of a couple of hundred civilians of all ages.



Congratulations. It's a shame this didn't seem to be a consideration for Hamas.

How about the further collective punishment of people who were already being collectively punished - the sole crime of many being where on Earth they were born?

BTW, Palestinian women and children are held in Israeli jails.

 

[JimW]

There's an in-between option where they have undertaken some sort of strategic planning with what resources they have.

Yes, think you're right, I think from their point of view the casualty count will be far more in their favour than any other recent episode even if the IDF go in hard. Wonder if they expected/hoped for more from Hezbollah?

 

[CH1]

Anyone ever watch Al Jazeera Arabic?
It used to be on Freeview pre about 2013 in HD low bandwidth - when no-one had that as a rule.
I just flipped over to Freeview 268 which is now Al Jazeera Arabic (streaming).
For a minute or two they reverted to their rather alarming house-style from years ago when they showed newsreel of military action accompanied by music.
Was Apocalypse Now popular in media training schools in the Middle East?
I was surprised to see thousands marching in Istanbul in favour of the Hamas strikes - just that BBC or Sky never showed it.
The most confusing media channel is WION - an independent right wing Indian channel on Freeview 269.
This had a strapline saying "Modi says India stands with Israel" and then kept showing pictures of the Turkish President and the Pope - who I believe are neutral.

 

[Elpenor]

For the deaths and injuries they have inflicted. Remember that graph from earlier? Killings and injuries of Palestinians by Israel is larger than the other way round by a factor of at least ten. Do you condemn them for it? What is the difference between being “critical” of Israel for their own killing of civilians and “condemning” Hamas for theirs? What does it take for “critical” to become “condemnation”?

A factor of 22 if it was this chart



Post in thread 'October 2023: Gaza strikes against Israel.'
October 2023: Gaza strikes against Israel.

 

[A380]

Would it be a forlorn hope to suggest keeping this thread for discussing the truly horrifying things that are happening and will continue to happen in Gaza and Israel and setting up another one where posters can show how their position on Israel/Palestine makes them better than other posters?

 

[Idris2002]

With the massacre of the ravers, Hamas went over the edge into evil. And now Israel is gleefully following them:

 

[Idris2002]

Would it be a forlorn hope to suggest keeping this thread for discussing the truly horrifying things that are happening and will continue to happen in Gaza and Israel and setting up another one where posters can show how their position on Israel/Palestine makes them better than other posters?

"forlorn"? a ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ha

 

[Spymaster]

Would it be a forlorn hope to suggest keeping this thread for discussing the truly horrifying things that are happening and will continue to happen in Gaza and Israel and setting up another one where posters can show how their position on Israel/Palestine makes them better than other posters?

Absolutely.

Anyone who can possibly respond to these events with anything that vaguely relates to begining with "but Israel ..." should immediately recuse themselves from the thread.