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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

The39thStep said:
I know it's an unfortunate coincidence, and no doubt faulty spelling, but when I clicked on the recommended tab on your post it took me to Outbrain. Why are you recommending that?
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no idea sorry a bad link you might be able to explain by claiming you didn't have the full facts of the attack.
but hamas went on a killing spree against civillians that is the fact
 
likesfish said:
Student union officer at Sussex University 'celebrates' attacks on Israel
this woman
women’s officer at a university students’ union described the attacks by Hamas on Israel that have killed hundreds of people as “beautiful” and a “success”.
Hanin Barghouthi, who is an elected officer at the University of Sussex Students’ Union, addressed a crowd of people at a pro-Palestine rally on Sunday, just a day after militant groups crossed the border from Gaza into Israel, killing and abducting Israeli civilians.
Israel has said 900 civilians and soldiers have been killed in the attacks.
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Ms Barghouti, who identified as a Palestinian, told the crowd that the attacks were “beautiful and inspiring to see”.
She said: “It shows us as Palestinians and it shows the world that we will always fight and we will always resist, and we need to celebrate these acts of violence because this is a success.
“Revolutionary violence initiated by Palestinians is not terrorism, it is self-defence.”
Ms Barghouthi, who is also a student at the University of Sussex, was elected as a women’s officer for the students’ union in the spring. In a manifesto, she said: “I am committed to putting my whole heart into working for you, making this uni safe and inclusive and comfortable.”



Brighton resident Heidi Bachram said she found Ms Barghouthi’s comments “morally despicable”.
She said: “Israeli women were raped and murdered and this so-called women’s officer was celebrating - it’s abhorrent.

“We have family currently hiding inside their homes while rockets hit. We have relatives killed and kidnapped. Jewish businesses and communities here are being targeted and she celebrated violence. I am filled with fury.”
The father of a new student at the University of Sussex said that she is now afraid to go around campus because of the comments made by Ms Barghouthi.
He told The Argus that the students’ union have a “duty of care” and accused them of not taking her comments seriously.
He also said that, when he complained to the students’ union about her remarks yesterday, a duty manager responded: “It’s Monday morning, what do you want me to do about it?”
“Their silence is deafening,” he said.
A spokeswoman for the University of Sussex said: “We have received a complaint about a Sussex student expressing views on the recent attacks by Hamas in Israel.
“The university is currently seeking to establish the facts and, if necessary, will take action in line with our policies and the law.”
A police spokeswoman said officers are reviewing footage from the protest and “remain committed to ensuring any reported offences are investigated proportionately, without prejudice, and in line with legislation, while recognising the complexities and sensitivities of the issue”.
Home Secretary Suella Braverman spoke about the reaction in Britain. She said that there is “no place on British streets for demonstrations that glorify terrorism” and said she is writing to police chiefs urging them to use all their powers to prevent disorder and distress.
The University of Sussex Students’ Union has been approached for comment.



So targeting Israeli civillians is fine but getting the same treatment back is a crime against humanity?

Israel belives if it loses one war it will be genocided that's why it has nukes there's never been a time when international law came to the rescue of the Jewish people it was mostly used to oppress them that's why the don't give a fuck about international law or the U. It's only ever been used against them.
They have the military upper hand now and they are going to use it.



​

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I fully expect others on the platform were giving it the "oh fuck" expression at the time.
 
Rob Ray said:
Alright let's downgrade then. Who's hiding that they're actually in favour of what Hamas did through excuses and er, "begrudging". Just name a few names if you're not feeling like a search bot, you must have some in mind.
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Nope, it’s just a general observation based on the prevalence of support for Hamas as evidenced in various polls etc, and the opinions short of explicit support voiced by many on this thread. I can’t believe Urban is such a massive outlier compared to the general populace that it contains zero Hamas supporters, although having said that support is highest among the under-40s and Muslims, and I’m pretty sure there’s no danger of either of those hanging out here.
 
platinumsage said:
Nope, it’s just a general observation based on the prevalence of support for Hamas as evidenced in various polls etc, and the opinions short of explicit support voiced by many on this thread. I can’t believe Urban is such a massive outlier compared to the general populace that it contains zero Hamas supporters, although having said that support is highest among the under-40s and Muslims, and I’m pretty sure there’s no danger of any of those hanging out here.
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He’s talking bollocks.
 
platinumsage said:
Not referring to you specifically, but when someone’s claim is at complete odds with everything else they say on the subject, you have to wonder whether begrudgement is involved. Like when Corbyn backed remain during the referendum.
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You dont have to wonder, you just choose to do so because it is convenient for your stance.

Islamist movements arent popular round here. This was obvious on all sorts of occasions such as when people were happy to see the people of Egypt get a vote after the arab spring, but were not happy that the Muslim Brotherhood won. Attitudes that then had an effect on their ability to see the Egyptian armies crude use of the Tamarod movement coming, and further awkwardness when this climaxed in a coup and the brutal murder of many.

That brief period where Egypt had a Muslim Brotherhood president did alter the balance in the region a bit, eg when Israel and Hamas started fighting during that period, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood had links to Hamas and so were positioned somewhat differently when helping 'negotiate a cease-fire' between Israel and Hamas in 2012.

It was easier for sections of the left to take a more simplistic stance back when many dominant parties or movements in the region were ostensibly secular, attitudes are more conflicted since the decline of those secular movements and the rise of islamist groups in their place.
 
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platinumsage said:
Nope, it’s just a general observation based on the prevalence of support for Hamas as evidenced in various polls etc, and the opinions short of explicit support voiced by many on this thread. I can’t believe Urban is such a massive outlier compared to the general populace that it contains zero Hamas supporters, although having said that support is highest among the under-40s and Muslims, and I’m pretty sure there’s no danger of any of those hanging out here.
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Okay so it's a vague assertion which is not in fact based on what people have actually said at all. Got it.

I'll counter by saying the fact this is an explicitly political board probably means, in my estimation, that there'll be a small minority of people being unreasonable, and a high percentage of people who have thought about it a bit more than usual and may have a lot of information that might actually be of interest, if you weren't filtering it through a lens that dismisses whatever they say as "begrudging."
 
Rob Ray said:
Okay so it's a vague assertion which is not in fact based on what people have actually said at all. Got it.

I'll counter by saying the fact this is an explicitly political board probably means, in my estimation, that there'll be a small minority of people being unreasonable, and a high percentage of people who have thought about it a bit more than usual and may have a lot of information that might actually be of interest, if you weren't filtering it through a lens that dismisses whatever they say as "begrudging."
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So, you DO condemn the Hamas’ action?
 
likesfish said:
no idea sorry a bad link you might be able to explain by claiming you didn't have the full facts of the attack.
but hamas went on a killing spree against civillians that is the fact
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You are saying that its a bad link? Ok but what does the rest of your first sentence mean?
 
A380 said:
And for about the fourth time.
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I'm not actually much of a fan of Knotted's stuff on here, and wouldn't want to speak for them in any case, but I'll note their post was on October 7th while the thread was only talking about the fact of the breakout, before massacres become the news story. So while I'd still disagree with them there (because as was being said at the time, it was going to lead to largely pointless deaths all round and a devastating Israeli response) that particular post can't be linked to delight about either Hamas specifically or civilian murder in particular. It was solely about the act of "prison break".
 
Kevbad the Bad said:
So what the fuck are you actually claiming? If I claim that the Hamas attacks were not justified, is that begrudging, and does that mean that I don't mean it?
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Spymaster said:
Are you claiming that then?
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Kevbad the Bad said:
I don't just claim it, I state it unequivocally.
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And I then go on to state unequivocally that the Israeli response is equally unjustified, equally barbaric, equally destructive, although in purely quantitative terms it has already surpassed the Hamas atrocities.
 
Rob Ray said:
I'm not actually much of a fan of Knotted's stuff on here, and wouldn't want to speak for them in any case, but I'll note their post was on October 7th while the thread was only talking about the fact of the breakout, before massacres become the news story. So while I'd still disagree with them there (because as was being said at the time, it was going to lead to a devastating Israeli response) that post can't be linked to delight about either Hamas specifically or civilian murder in particular. It was solely about the act of "prison break".
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And this is the problem isn't it? Unequivactle support of the Hamas actions can still be dismissed. Knotted's post was bigoted idiocy, which even they later (tried) to row back from.

You just show you will disregard anything that doesn't support your good and evil binary view. For shame.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
One of the problems with this place is that a post, once made, can never be undone and can always be quoted again and again - four times so far in this case - despite anything you might post subsequently. Knotted has subsequently apologised for that post, made on the day in a highly emotional state.
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In vino veritas perhaps?
 
A380 said:
And this is the problem isn't it? Unequivactle support of the Hamas actions can still be dismissed. Knotted's post was bigoted idiocy, which even they later (tried) to row back from.

You just show you will disregard anything that doesn't support your good and evil binary view. For shame.
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Are you dense? I specifically said I didn't agree with the post even though it wasn't "unequivocal support of Hamas' actions" at all and in fact was an expression of support for the act of prison break, one they didn't "row back" on but apologised once they realised the full extent of what was happening - the very opposite, in fact, of "unequivocal" support.

This is what I've meant about the total lack of sense being shown here. You're seeing this as "aha, proof the left is full of outrage denial", rather than as someone having an immediate emotional response, then a rethink. That's a binary approach. And fwiw I've suggested a few people are being thickheaded around here, but I've certainly not called anyone evil (or good particularly), or even implied such - can you say the same?
 
platinumsage said:
Nope, I’ve said people have excused their actions, not celebrated them. This was all covered earlier in the thread so you’ll just have to go and find it, I’m not your personal search bot.
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While we’re addressing where people personally stand, as being somehow the crux of something or other, I’ll note that you ignored this post from this morning, which I asked you personally a similar question to the ones currently being demanded of others:

kabbes said:
What, specifically, you would condemn of Israel’s actions to date?
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A380 said:
And this is the problem isn't it? Unequivactle support of the Hamas actions can still be dismissed. Knotted's post was bigoted idiocy, which even they later (tried) to row back from.

You just show you will disregard anything that doesn't support your good and evil binary view. For shame.
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Sorry mate but sometimes I think I'm reading a different thread to you and some others. I've lost count of the number of times people have tried to conflate the whole issue into a binary one ("So do you support Hamas or not? No, I know you're saying you don't but what do you REALLY think?") and the number of times decent posters have felt the need to qualify any statement they might make about Israel with the disclaimer of 'I don't support beheading babies'.

And that whole narrative is done to deliberately delegitimize any anti-Israeli government speech by making it into support for a criminal cause that involves beheading babies.

While Israel continue to behead babies from 30000ft.
 
likesfish said:
Israel belives if it loses one war it will be genocided that's why it has nukes there's never been a time when international law came to the rescue of the Jewish people it was mostly used to oppress them that's why the don't give a fuck about international law or the U. It's only ever been used against them.
They have the military upper hand now and they are going to use it.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's true, Israel fights alone without a single powerful friend in the world. Not a single bit of military, economic or political power. None at all.
 
I know the left is pitching the resignations as a real threat to Starmer but tbh I suspect he'll be quite pleased - losing a few councils (probably temporarily) isn't such a huge cost from a centrist perspective if you're also getting rid of a load of influential lefties from prime positions. What did he call them, fleas?
 
Christ if the stuff the IDF have been briefing journos on in their 45 min for your eyes only video presentation is true. Hell if even half of it is true. Beheading people, then having sex with them, with written orders to do so. It doesn't excuse what Israel is currently engaging it but fucking hell. What sick fucks. The footage of the little boys being grenaded. How could a normal person actually do shit like that. Were they drugged?
 
A380 said:
In vino veritas perhaps?
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And there it is. A post made as an immediate response is subsequently apologised for following reflection, and you choose to believe that the initial post is the poster's real position.

How about you stop quoting that post now? Or at the very least, quote it alongside the apology. Otherwise, I know who it is that I think is posting in bad faith.
 
platinumsage said:
Nope, it’s just a general observation based on the prevalence of support for Hamas as evidenced in various polls etc, and the opinions short of explicit support voiced by many on this thread. I can’t believe Urban is such a massive outlier compared to the general populace that it contains zero Hamas supporters, although having said that support is highest among the under-40s and Muslims, and I’m pretty sure there’s no danger of either of those hanging out here.
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I'd have thought - hoped in fact - that Urban was exactly the kind of place that supported the Palestinians but didn't support Hamas.
 
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