Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[JimW]

Just read Israel is propping up its currency after it's fallen to an eight year low against the dollar, the markets can be guaranteed to ditch you in a crisis.

 

[TopCat]

There are people on this thread expressing pretty much the same sentiment.

There are a couple of topics on which certain elements of the far left are absolutely fucking insane.

Israel is one of them.

Summarise the centre right position?

 

[_Russ_]

I hope this isn't a reference to some in-jokey crap. That would be utterly tasteless.

It is simply a type of music, makes no difference I can see other than being quite westernised and hence perhaps more of a target for Islamic extremists.

 

[LDC]

There are people on this thread expressing pretty much the same sentiment.

There are a couple of topics on which certain elements of the far left are absolutely fucking insane.

Israel is one of them.

TBF nearly everyone is a bit unhinged when it comes to discussing Israel and Palestine.

 

[Spymaster]

Summarise the centre right position?

If there is a homogenous one, I'm not aware of it, but I doubt there is anyone on either side of the debate, who's not a psychotic, deluded arsehole, who would seek to explain the murder of 250 kids at a party, and the hostage taking of children and elderly, as anything other than disgusting and depraved.

 

[Pickman's model]

If there is a homogenous one, I'm not aware of it, but I doubt there is anyone on either side of the debate, who's not a psychotic, deluded arsehole, who would seek to explain the murder of 250 kids at a party, and the hostage taking of children and elderly, as anything other than disgusting and depraved

Yeh it is disgusting. So is expecting people who live in a prison camp to behave really well when they manage to break out. It's a bit shit all round really.

 

[Karl Masks]

What she said was:
View attachment 394792

I support palestinian emancipation but to celebrate this seems wrong. There are also reports of pretty sizble (if the pics are to be believed) events that appear to celebrate, as this tweet appears to, what happened. How is this a victory when Israel will just flatten Gaza. Again.

 

[TopCat]

If there is a homogenous one, I'm not aware of it, but I doubt there is anyone on either side of the debate, who's not a psychotic, deluded arsehole, who would seek to explain the murder of 250 kids at a party, and the hostage taking of children and elderly, as anything other than disgusting and depraved.

Ok tell us your view of what should be done.

 

[platinumsage]

Yeh it is disgusting. So is expecting people who live in a prison camp to behave really well when they manage to break out. It's a bit shit all round really.

It's well known that prisoners of war who escaped from Nazi prison camps went on rampages killing women and children, haven't you seen The Great Escape?

 

[Spymaster]

Ok tell us your view of what should be done.

I think everyone, whatever their politics, should unequivocally and unconditionally, condemn the massacre of children.

Do you?

 

[Karl Masks]

Here's Rivkah's last tweet, a sort of response to the responses she must have knwon were coming


the neo nazi battalions thing is a bit of a red flag perhaps

 

[TopCat]

I think everyone, whatever their politics, should unequivocally and unconditionally condemn the massacre of children.

Do you?

Oh not words of condemnation. I mean what do you think the Israelis should do now? I ask as a lot of the actions proposed by Israelis today sum up as “kill all the Palestinians “.

 

[teqniq]

Possibly the only good thing that may come from this is the end of Netenhayu:

Netanyahu Bears Responsibility for This Israel-Gaza War

 

[Pickman's model]

It's well known that prisoners of war who escaped from Nazi prison camps went on rampages killing women and children, haven't you seen The Great Escape?

I don't know that I'd equate the zionists with the nazis nor the British empire with the Palestinians but hey whatever floats your boat

 

[kabbes]

It’s no different from e.g. praising the 7/7 London bombers for rising up against British colonial atrocities against muslims.

Wot

 

[Brayfart]

It's well known that prisoners of war who escaped from Nazi prison camps went on rampages killing women and children, haven't you seen The Great Escape?

If there'd been several hundred at a time with guns and vehicles they probably would have. And there were plenty of German women and kids killed by the allies. It's okay with bombs though isn't it.

 

[Spymaster]

Oh not words of condemnation. I mean what do you think the Israelis should do now? I ask as a lot of the actions proposed by Israelis today sum up as “kill all the Palestinians “.

That's like asking "what's your solution to the Palestine/Isaeli conflict?" There isn't one. It's intractable.

Unfortunately, their likely response will be to invade Gaza, in a long and concerted attempt to wipe out Hamas that's going to result in far more misery.

What we can all hope for though, is that in this intractable conflict, certain lines don't get crossed. Hamas have just crossed one that should have been inviolable and massacred over 250 children.

As far as those Israelis saying "kill all Palestinians" are concerned, I hold them in the same contempt as I do those on the left who respond to the massacre of Israeli children with 'Palestinians in Gaza have been held in an open-air prison'.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's like asking "what's your solution to the Palestine/Isaeli conflict?" There isn't one. It's intractable.

Unfortunately, their likely response will be to invade Gaza, in a long and concerted attempt to wipe out Hamas that's going to result in far more misery.

What we can all hope for though, is that in this intractable conflict, certain lines don't get crossed. Hamas have just crossed one that should have been inviolable and massacred over 250 children.

As far as those Israelis saying "kill all Palestinians" are concerned, I hold them in the same contempt as I do those on the left who respond to the massacre of Israeli children with 'Palestinians in Gaza have been held in an open-air prison'.

Of course there's a solution. There's a range of solutions. But the zionists have spent years making equitable outcomes less likely.

 

[TopCat]

That's like asking "what's your solution to the Palestine/Isaeli conflict?" There isn't one. It's intractable.

Unfortunately, their likely response will be to invade Gaza, in a long and concerted attempt to wipe out Hamas that's going to result in far more misery.

What we can all hope for though, is that in this intractable conflict, certain lines don't get crossed. Hamas have just crossed one that should have been inviolable and massacred over 250 children.

As far as those Israelis saying "kill all Palestinians" are concerned, I hold them in the same contempt as I do those on the left who respond to the massacre of Israeli children with 'Palestinians in Gaza have been held in an open-air prison'.

Ta for the response

 

[TopCat]

I was surprised this morning to read the gaps in the fence were not all guarded and people are going to and fro.

 

[Spymaster]

Ta for the response

Do you then, unconditionally and unequivocally condemn this massacre of kids at the festival?

 

[Riklet]

It's a bit disingenuous to say that the rave/music festival attendees were children. They were adults (Israeli and other) out partying a few km from the Gaza strip. That does not excuse what happened. And I'm definitely against the murder of civilians (exactly why I oppose Israel) but it's not true that children have been killed en mass. In the end I don't agree at all with this kind of 'resistance' to Israeli apparteidt but it's not hard to see and explain how it has happened.

And while 2 wrongs dont make a right, if we are concerned about under 18s then what Israel has done just this whole year far outstrips this Hamas opperation. The tragedy of this conflict is the majority of innocent people that suffer.

 

[Pickman's model]

What we can all hope for though, is that in this intractable conflict, certain lines don't get crossed. Hamas have just crossed one that should have been inviolable and massacred over 250 children.

As far as those Israelis saying "kill all Palestinians" are concerned, I hold them in the same contempt as I do those on the left who respond to the massacre of Israeli children with 'Palestinians in Gaza have been held in an open-air prison'.

I daresay that if I'd lived in gaza and seen my friends massacred that I might be less likely to treat the children of my captors - many of whom appear to have been of an age for military service - really kindly. Does it make it right? Not really. But then if people always did the right thing then Palestinians and zionists would be living in peace side by side

 

[platinumsage]

Perhaps we should have a separate thread for whataboutery.

 

[Pickman's model]

Perhaps we should have a separate thread for whataboutery.

No one's stopping you starting one

 

[Spymaster]

And while 2 wrongs dont make a right …

I stopped here.

 

[kabbes]

… in the same contempt as I do those on the left who respond to the massacre of Israeli children with 'Palestinians in Gaza have been held in an open-air prison'.

The reason for pointing out the conditions in Gaza is not to support or even endorse the massacres. It’s merely to recognise that the massacres exist as a reaction. In turn, this recognition means that if you want to prevent future massacres, you need to address the conditions that created the reaction.

If you don’t do this, if you don’t try to understand the context and thus recognise that any solutions need to encompass this context, you’re basically accepting that there will be future massacres. And surely that is way worse.

 

[likesfish]

Israel seems to be a treated as a total atrocity machine
while Saudi and Iran and Syria get excuses made or just ignored when they commit atrocitys

 

[Pickman's model]

Israel seems to be a treated as a total atrocity machine
while Saudi and Iran and Syria get excuses made or just ignored when they commit atrocitys

All states are atrocity machines

 

[platinumsage]

The reason for pointing out the conditions in Gaza is not to support or even endorse the massacres. It’s merely to recognise that the massacres exist as a reaction. In turn, this recognition means that if you want to prevent future massacres, you need to address the conditions that created the reaction.

If you don’t do this, if you don’t try to understand the context and thus recognise that any solutions need to encompass this context, you’re basically accepting that there will be future massacres. And surely that is way worse.

People seem mighty sure that the massacre was due to the "conditions in Gaza" rather than say, Iran-backed fundamentalists wanting to rid Israel of Jews.