Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[xenon]

What I would like is an immediate ceasefire, the hostages to be released, power water and food deliveries restored.
It’s easy this isn’t it.

 

[8ball]

Hardly fair. He said he wants the shooting to stop. Israel aren’t likely to whilst hostages are still held and no moves or indications, made to release them on the Hamas side.
All the handwringing isn’t going to change that.

I don’t know what Hamas are saying at all right now, but if you’re looking at negotiating a ceasefire then having a least one party who is thinking of stopping shooting is a start.

When you consider that this is all drawing Israel into exactly the kind of streetfighting on unfamiliar territory that they don’t want, what is Hamas’ incentive to get a ceasefire on the go?

Maybe losing the next election that they’re not holding?

 

[The39thStep]

Rolls eyes. I'm sure the residents would love it if were like the "meadows of Oxfordshire" too. Built-up area? One of the most densely populated places on Earth, often described as an open air prison. And who's responsible for that?

View attachment 396115

Just googled the meadows of Oxfordshire to ascertain what the IDF might be up against .

It's a home for, 'early-stage dementia and nursing care for up to 68 residents ' so its an environment and military target that they should be quite familiar with

The Meadows

Situated in a quiet and residential street in near to Didcot town centre lies The Meadows. The home offers compassionate, individualised residential, early-stage dementia and nursing care for up to 68 residents in a welcoming, friendly and cosy environment.

www.osjct.co.uk

 

[PTK]

The problem with that analysis is that those aren't Iron Dome interceptions. The Iron Dome intercepts rockets while they're over Israeli cities, not when they're over Gaza.

It also seems implausible that the rocket detonating over Gaza would be followed five seconds later by an explosion from an entirely unrelated strike, rather than say, the unburned fuel from the misfiring rocket that failed almost directly above the hospital.

I assume that the IDF can detect rocket launches, and that as soon as it detects a rocket launch, it launches a missile at the place from which the rocket was launched. Thus it makes sense that, if a rocket was launched from near the hospital, the IDF would immediately retaliate.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What I would like is an immediate ceasefire, the hostages to be released, power water and food deliveries restored.
It’s easy this isn’t it.

I think you've missed the point as well. There is a very long list of world leaders - in Europe and North America mostly - who are explicitly refusing to call for a ceasefire. Labour MPs can potentially get into trouble for doing so. There is a huge disconnect here between politicians and the people they represent.

 

[xenon]

I don’t know what Hamas are saying at all right now, but if you’re looking at negotiating a ceasefire then having a least one party who is thinking of stopping shooting is a start.

When you consider that this is all drawing Israel into exactly the kind of streetfighting on unfamiliar territory that they don’t want, what is Hamas’ incentive to get a ceasefire on the go?

Maybe losing the next election that they’re not holding?

I must admit I haven’t actively looked but yeah I would like to know what is the public explanation for all this. If it’s just Israel must go. Well yeah don’t think a ceasefire is on the cards any time soon.

 

[xenon]

I think you've missed the point as well. There is a very long list of world leaders - in Europe and North America mostly - who are explicitly refusing to call for a ceasefire. Labour MPs can potentially get into trouble for doing so. There is a huge disconnect here between politicians and the people they represent.

But they are not going to do that, not any in power, whilst there is nothing offered on the fete of the hostages on the other side. to not recognise that is just naive.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But they are not going to do that, not any in power, whilst there is nothing offered on the fete of the hostages on the other side. to not recognise that is just naive.

They're not going to call for an end to the pummelling of civilians? Naive to expect world leaders to call out war crimes?

And yet plenty of world leaders have done so, just not in Europe or North America. It is naive of the leaders in Europe and North America not to recognise the anger their blatant double standards are causing and the damage that does.

 

[Duncan2]

i had thought that a prisoner swap had been advocated at some point by some on the Palestinian side but i dont have a link for that?

 

[PTK]

Israel on the front foot about this now, cheeky scamps.

Israel accuses BBC of ‘modern blood libel’ over reporting of hospital strike

Corporation defends initial comments, saying they were made in immediate aftermath but then clarified in later reports

www.theguardian.com

Oh my days. That comment by the State of Israel is a disgrace.

I knew a woman who was a friend of my parents who lost relatives when the Jewish population of Pinsk, Belarus, was murdered by the Nazi occupiers. She said, in 2014 during a previous onslaught on the Gaza Strip, that her relatives did not die so that Israelis could murder Palestinians. Was she committing a blood libel?

 

[teqniq]

This is well worth a read:

Thread by @iyad_elbaghdadi on Thread Reader App

@iyad_elbaghdadi: Good afternoon (or morning, or evening). I went dark yesterday, really dark. But I managed to sleep and I have some clarity about the Al Ahli hospital massacre that I want to share with you....…

threadreaderapp.com

also this of which the opening tweet is quoted in the above thread:

 

[scalyboy]

Oh my days. That comment by the State of Israel is a disgrace.

I knew a woman who was a friend of my parents who lost relatives when the Jewish population of Pinsk, Belarus, was murdered by the Nazi occupiers. She said, in 2014 during a previous onslaught on the Gaza Strip, that her relatives did not die so that Israelis could murder Palestinians. Was she committing a blood libel?

A ridiculous statement (the Israeli govt tweet, I mean).
As absurd as Labour expelling Holocaust survivor members for alleged anti-Semitism
head explodes

 

[Larry O'Hara]

If everyone in a given territory is responsible for the crimes of those who claim to rule it, it would follow that Hamas' original attacks on Israel were entirely legitimate. They weren't.

A very logical point. To develop it further, why are Palestinians all held collectively responsible for the actions of Hamas whereas those who have settled in kibbutz’s on illegally occupied land are described as innocent victims? Just wondering, like, I am sure apologists for IDF war crimes will have a really clever answer. And no, I am not apologist for HAMAS.

 

[CNT36]

I assume that the IDF can detect rocket launches, and that as soon as it detects a rocket launch, it launches a missile at the place from which the rocket was launched. Thus it makes sense that, if a rocket was launched from near the hospital, the IDF would immediately retaliate.

One of the early videos after the hospital attack claimed to show a heat seeking missile hitting the rocket launch site then the hospital getting hit with what was called another missile. The video could be complete bullshit showing some thing quite different or elsewhere but it seemed to suggest they do do what you suggest or the commentator at least thought so.

 

[Knotted]

If that all proves to be the case, it shows Hamas are just as good at the propaganda war as Israel is. Though without spending millions on Xitter ads. (I probably threw up in my mouth a little the first time that popped up)

Nobody is even paying attention to what Hamas says.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Nobody is even paying attention to what Hamas says.

Bit like the IRA?

 

[8ball]

They're not going to call for an end to the pummelling of civilians? Naive to expect world leaders to call out war crimes?

And yet plenty of world leaders have done so, just not in Europe or North America. It is naive of the leaders in Europe and North America not to recognise the anger their blatant double standards are causing and the damage that does.

I’m not sure what the downsides of Sunak joining the calls for a ceasefire would have been.

 

[Raheem]

I’m not sure what the downsides of Sunak joining the calls for a ceasefire would have been.

That it would have led many to question whether a ceasefire is really such a good idea?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Chatting like Sunak gives a flying fuck!

 

[8ball]

Chatting like Sunak gives a flying fuck!

It’s nothing to do with that - it’s to do with the stance of the UK Government.

Which historically has had quite a hand in the whole sorry mess.

 

[Knotted]

"Critical thinkers" pretending that MSF and UN observers are just mouthpieces for Hamas. One thing this thread doesn't need is more "critical thinkers".

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I’m not sure what the downsides of Sunak joining the calls for a ceasefire would have been.

Clearly it is a strategic decision to support Israel and avoid any criticism of Israeli actions. A foolish one imo, one that can only serve to perpetuate the cycle of violence. It probably has something to do with a Great Game that I don't understand. Or maybe I understand all too well the consequences of such power struggles for ordinary people?

 

[teqniq]

More of this please:

 

[teqniq]

Somebody with a conscience decides they've had enough:

US official resigns over Biden’s ‘destructive, unjust’ arms to Israel

Josh Paul condemns administration’s ‘intellectual bankruptcy’ in providing weapons and for its support of ‘status quo of occupation’

www.theguardian.com

 

[agricola]

Clearly it is a strategic decision to support Israel and avoid any criticism of Israeli actions. A foolish one imo, one that can only serve to perpetuate the cycle of violence. It probably has something to do with a Great Game that I don't understand. Or maybe I understand all too well the consequences of such power struggles for ordinary people?

I think there is very little evidence of any kind of strategic thinking behind what he did today. If there had been, we would have an announcement of considerably increased defence spending.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

All depends on how we’re interpreting the word ‘strategic’ ?

 

[8ball]

Clearly it is a strategic decision to support Israel and avoid any criticism of Israeli actions. A foolish one imo, one that can only serve to perpetuate the cycle of violence. It probably has something to do with a Great Game that I don't understand. Or maybe I understand all too well the consequences of such power struggles for ordinary people?

Even Biden was urging more restraint.

 

[8ball]

I think there is very little evidence of any kind of strategic thinking behind what he did today. If there had been, we would have an announcement of considerably increased defence spending.

I guess we have arms producers here who are hoping for extended juicy contracts.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

I guess we have arms producers here who are hoping for extended juicy contracts.

And Biden isn’t?

 

[agricola]

All depends on how we’re interpreting the word ‘strategic’ ?

I would imagine it would be that the political advisors have told him it is a good strategy, whilst the Foreign Office and MoD told him it would be a stupid one.