Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[not-bono-ever]

plucky little israel

 

[Bingoman]

 

[ska invita]

Fears grow people are dehydrating to death in Gaza as clean water runs out

UN agency warns residents exposed to cholera and dysentery as city’s last seawater desalination plant closes

www.theguardian.com

... We're on day 12 by my count

 

[platinumsage]

Good to see the BBC are still saying 'alleged airstrike' and 'alleged incident' as AJ show pictures of the bombs being dropped and the hospital on fire.

Bombs being dropped? From a plane?

This happened during an ongoing rocket barrage towards Sderot. So it’s really an open question is to whether it was a rocket falling short, as up to 20% do, or an air strike or some other event. The BBC are doing the right thing by not parroting the Hamas line until they have enough info, which should be forthcoming soon enough.

 

[Riklet]

Fuck Israel. Criminal aprteidt state. It sickens me how they've been egged on to unleash this kind of violence.

I wasnt going to go on a Pro Palestinian march before because I don't want to even tacitly support (a minority of) Islamists and border-line antisemites chanting their rubbish. Or acting like Hamas are innocent and not terrorists.

But 500 people+ killed as Israel flattens a hospital without warning in Gaza? Fucking cunts. I'm definitely going on the next one. The Palestinian people need our support, however small it is.

 

[planetgeli]

Bombs being dropped? From a plane?

This happened during an ongoing rocket barrage towards Sderot. So it’s really an open question is to whether it was a rocket falling short, as up to 20% do, or an air strike or some other event. The BBC are doing the right thing by not parroting the Hamas line until they have enough info, which should be forthcoming soon enough.

Is that the best you can do?

Yes, yes it is.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

To the Israel supporters on this thread. How many civilian deaths are too many for you?

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Fuck Israel.

I wasnt going to go on a Pro Palestinian march before because I don't want to even tacitly support (a minority of) Islamists and border-line antisemites chanting their rubbish.

But 500 people+ killed as Israel flattens a hospital without warning in Gaza? Fucking cunts. I'm definitely going on the next one. The Palestinian people need our support, however small it is.

This Saturday, Marble Arch midday.

 

[teqniq]

Abbas now says he will not meet with Biden who is due to visit the region in the next few hours.

 

[PTK]

Hundreds of casualties as Israel hits Gaza hospital sheltering thousands

Israeli air strike hits the al-Ahli hospital in Gaza City where thousands are seeking safety and treatment.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[cupid_stunt]

Abbas now says he will not meet with Biden who is due to visit the region in the next few hours.

Great, another bonus for Israel.

 

[tim]

To the Israel supporters on this thread. How many civilian deaths are too many for you?

Are there any Israel supporters on this thread?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Bombs being dropped? From a plane?

This happened during an ongoing rocket barrage towards Sderot. So it’s really an open question is to whether it was a rocket falling short, as up to 20% do, or an air strike or some other event. The BBC are doing the right thing by not parroting the Hamas line until they have enough info, which should be forthcoming soon enough.

Hamas fired hundreds of rockets in their initial attack and only wounded about 10 people. Extraordinary how these piss poor munitions of theirs are so many orders of magnitude more effective when they fall short.

 

[Ax^]

bombing hospitals without warning

but look at our dead babies and hinting it could be terrorist (Hamas) actions

sicking cynical actions by the state of Israel

 

[Riklet]

Great, another bonus for Israel.

Im not sure that's true. I think Biden will be very concerned right now. He is balancing the pro Israel lobby and letting Israel take revenge on Hamas with the fact he may see a regional war starting while he's there. This is a very real risk. Hamas have offered to release some civilian hostages to halt the bombing. But they could also start killing military hostages while attacks increase from the North and unrest grows in the West Bank.

It's right for Abbas to refuse to meet him though as he has stirred the flames and given the Israelis support in killing thousands of civilians this past week. But I do think this is quite a snub because Abbas is obviously turning down the opportunity to be the most influential Palestinian meeting the most influential person in the world, politically.

I suspect that other Arab leaders will cancel too or be very frosty if Biden can't push for a cease fire or at least a pause in the bombing of Gaza. And let's be honest, could he even do this even if he really wanted to, with Israel the hydra the way it is right now?

 

[agricola]

Just left the prayer vigil at Westminster Cathedral to learn about this latest horror.

It should be pointed out that this isn't the first time that hospital or its staff have been targeted; they blew up the Administrator's home six days ago and hit the hospital itself on the 14th.

Also I know it shouldn't make a difference, but that is an Anglican run hospital that has just been blown up. Sunak is not going to be able to continue down the path he is on.

 

[mojo pixy]

Israeli military spokesperson Daniel Hagari said there were still no details on the hospital deaths: “We'll get the details and update the public. I don’t know to say whether it was an Israeli air strike.”

Israel is working on an explanation that it was a Hamas rocket misfiring or some shit idk

 

[The39thStep]

Are there any Israel supporters on this thread?

Is this about them not putting flags up as brogdale reported?

 

[cupid_stunt]

Im not sure that's true. I think Biden will be very concerned right now. He is balancing the pro Israel lobby and letting Israel take revenge on Hamas with the fact he may see a regional war starting while he's there.

It's right for Abbas to refuse to meet him as he has stirred the flames and given the Israelis support in killing thousands of civilians. But I think this is quite a snub because Abbas is obviously turning down the opportunity to be the most influential Palestinian meeting the most influential person in the world, politically.

I suspect that other Arab leaders will cancel too or be very frosty if Biden can't push for a cease fire or at least a pause in the bombing of Gaza. And let's be honest, could he even do this even if he really wanted to, with Israel the hydra the way it is right now?

Abbas & other Arab leaders refusing to meet Biden now is understandable, but clearly it's to the advantage of Israel, they are not interested in the US trying to restrain them ATM, I wouldn't be surprised if that's why they bombed the hospital,

 

[Raheem]

It’s really an open question is to whether it was a rocket falling short, as up to 20% do, or an air strike or some other event.

Yeah, probably just really bad luck.

 

[teqniq]

Abbas & other Arab leaders refusing to meet Biden now is understandable, but clearly it's to the advantage of Israel, they are not interested in the US trying to restrain them ATM, I wouldn't be surprised if that's why they bombed the hospital,

Judging by what I'm seeing on al-Jazeera live feed atm in Ramallah it's kicked off pretty badly and the guy who's reporting from there is, his analysis is that the people are really fed up with Abbas and want him back from Jordan, they don't want him to meet Biden. He emphasises this a great deal.

e2a he says live gunfire now. Reportage cut short. It's Palesinian security forces on the streets right now as far as he knows not Israelis.

 

[Riklet]

Abbas & other Arab leaders refusing to meet Biden now is understandable, but clearly it's to the advantage of Israel, they are not interested in the US trying to restrain them ATM, I wouldn't be surprised if that's why they bombed the hospital,

Thats conspiracy nonsense. This could lead to a full on war in the next 24 hours. Not what the Israelis wanted. They could also alienate even further the Jordanians and Egyptians, maybe Turkey too.. plus sink the Saudi deal for good.

The US arent prepared for a regional war right now with Ukraine going on too. They might be able to do it but they are not prepared. Biden has elections coming up and the US public is already weary of the costs with Ukraine and military stalemate. He could well throw more weight around than we imagine. In the end, if the Americans want something they will probably get it.. even with Israel. But Biden also has to balance this against the push to support Israel and its right to self defence.

I suspect the hospital bombing will be regarded by Biden as the Israelis crossing a line. And a disrespect, seeing as he arrives tomorrow. I suspect he will try and force a ceasefire and humanitarian aid.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Watching aljazeera now and it’s kicking off in Ramallah against the PA. For those unaware, this is highly unusual. The english reporter, speaking live, has just had to take cover from live gunfire…in Ramallah.

 

[agricola]

Thats conspiracy nonsense. This could lead to a full on war in the next 24 hours. Not what the Israelis wanted. They could also alienate even further the Jordanians and Egyptians, maybe Turkey too.. plus sink the Saudi deal for good.

The US arent prepared for a regional war right now with Ukraine going on too. They might be able to do it but they are not prepared. Biden has elections coming up and the US public is already weary of the costs with Ukraine and military stalemate. He could well throw more weight around than we imagine. In the end, if the Americans want something they will probably get it.. even with Israel. But Biden also has to balance this against the push to support Israel and its right to self defence.

I suspect the hospital viewing will be regarded by Biden as the Israelis crossing a line. And a disrespect, seeing as he arrives tomorrow.

I disagree, I think most of the Israeli government is comprised of people who absolutely want to inflict absolute terror on the inhabitants of the Gaza Strip as a matter of policy; this attack fits in with the rest of what they have been doing.

I think though his hand is going to be forced by the regional / international cost of further backing Netanyahu. Israel is massively important in US politics, but Netanyahu is not Israel and not worth the total collapse of all influence in the region and further afield.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Thats conspiracy nonsense. This could lead to a full on war in the next 24 hours. Not what the Israelis wanted. They could also alienate even further the Jordanians and Egyptians, maybe Turkey too.. plus sink the Saudi deal for good.

So, why do you think the Israelis have chosen to bomb this hospital on the eve of Biden's visit, knowing what trouble it would cause?

Do you think it's just an accident?

 

[TopCat]

oh come on tell me at least still a bullet to the knee

I would have to start with the tories in my wider family if I were fair. I have learned a level of acceptance instead.

 

[TopCat]

Are there any Israel supporters on this thread?

Yes

 

[Riklet]

So, why do you think the Israelis have chosen to bomb this hospital on the eve of Biden's visit, knowing what trouble it would cause?

Do you think it's just an accident?

Yeah tbh I do. This is the nature of war, shit happens. It may seem like some crazy secret scheme but it realistically probably isn't. Just a tragic mistake.

How are they going to hush up a whole artilery unit or pilot team from going public if they were deliberately told to target that hospital? and if they were and that does come out I think Biden will be furious as rather than a soothing shit-sandwich trip it could be much much worse.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Bombs being dropped? From a plane?

This happened during an ongoing rocket barrage towards Sderot. So it’s really an open question is to whether it was a rocket falling short, as up to 20% do, or an air strike or some other event. The BBC are doing the right thing by not parroting the Hamas line until they have enough info, which should be forthcoming soon enough.

So is this Israel's right to defend itself, sorry, herself, or is it Israel's right to pretend not to be in full possession of the facts yet, a thorough investigation needs to be undertaken, and, oh look, there's a squirrel.

 

[Ax^]

Bombs being dropped? From a plane?

This happened during an ongoing rocket barrage towards Sderot. So it’s really an open question is to whether it was a rocket falling short, as up to 20% do, or an air strike or some other event. The BBC are doing the right thing by not parroting the Hamas line until they have enough info, which should be forthcoming soon enough.