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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

belboid said:
You omit the history or empire. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain wanted to ensure it had influence over one constant, and there wasn't an arabic (or Persian) country that hadn't been fucked over by us, so it needed somewhere. And what better place than where there was already a 'mandate'? Being able to use it to split other arabic nations was just a bonus.
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That being the case it is difficult to see why the British put so much effort into trying to keep jews out and into fighting against the zionists
 
Gramsci said:
Thanks for this. I did wonder but thought it might be conspiracy loon stuff to think that British military and Israeli military work so closely. In a official if secret way.

As this is secret their has been no democratic oversight of it. Which is appalling. Britain hardly can say it has a neutral role in this ongoing conflict.

I think its scandalous, if not surprising , the British military work with Israel army.

Historically the British taught the Zionists some of their well honed techniques for keeping the Palestinians in line. During Arab Revolt in 1930s Orde Wingate feared Night Squads included Zionists. Collective punishment/ detention all learnt from British.

In some ways I'd say that IDF operate like a colonial army. And always have.
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When you say secret do you mean 'i don't read anything about defence and intelligence'...?

The UK defence sector has had a relationship with Israel since the formation of the state - industrial, training, intelligence, equipment - all very public, not secret, debated in parliament (particularly a UAV called Watchkeeper, which has turned out to be an expensive mistake).

Stuff you don't read isn't a secret.
 
belboid said:
You omit the history or empire. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain wanted to ensure it had influence over one constant, and there wasn't an arabic (or Persian) country that hadn't been fucked over by us, so it needed somewhere. And what better place than where there was already a 'mandate'? Being able to use it to split other arabic nations was just a bonus.
Click to expand...
Soz the ottoman empire fell in 1924. When was it the British left Egypt and Sudan? You talk about the history but you're playing rather fast and loose with it yourself
 
belboid said:
You omit the history or empire. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain wanted to ensure it had influence over one constant, and there wasn't an arabic (or Persian) country that hadn't been fucked over by us, so it needed somewhere. And what better place than where there was already a 'mandate'? Being able to use it to split other arabic nations was just a bonus.
Click to expand...
I did not ’omit’ as such, just didn’t write a historical essay spanning pages, which is what a full answer would require. I’ll know not to bother next time: eg I could accuse you of ‘omitting’ Iran and so on etc etc. But as stated, won’t bother next time
 
kebabking said:
When you say secret do you mean 'i don't read anything about defence and intelligence'...?

The UK defence sector has had a relationship with Israel since the formation of the state - industrial, training, intelligence, equipment - all very public, not secret, debated in parliament (particularly a UAV called Watchkeeper, which has turned out to be an expensive mistake).

Stuff you don't read isn't a secret.
Click to expand...
In case you don't trust the source I posted which also says the same thing as quoted below, it links to this site which says:

1697566197142.png

www.bicom.org.uk

UK and Israel sign military agreement - BICOM

What happened: The British Armed forces and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have signed a joint agreement to strengthen their relationship. Last Thursday, the UK’s Chief of Defence Staff, Gen. Sir Nicholas Carter and the IDF Chief of Staff, Lt Gen Aviv Kochavi met via video link and signed the...
www.bicom.org.uk www.bicom.org.uk
 
Rimbaud said:
This is genocide, pure and simple.
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And not just predictable but actually predicted: Starmer and his crew are knee-deep in Palestinian blood. Utter bastards. Though it does provide a subtitle for the foreign policy section of their next manifesto (with apologies to Norman Cohn) ‘Warrant for Genocide’…..
 
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Gramsci said:
Thanks for this. I did wonder but thought it might be conspiracy loon stuff to think that British military and Israeli military work so closely. In a official if secret way.

As this is secret their has been no democratic oversight of it. Which is appalling. Britain hardly can say it has a neutral role in this ongoing conflict.

I think its scandalous, if not surprising , the British military work with Israel army.

Historically the British taught the Zionists some of their well honed techniques for keeping the Palestinians in line. During Arab Revolt in 1930s Orde Wingate feared Night Squads included Zionists. Collective punishment/ detention all learnt from British.

In some ways I'd say that IDF operate like a colonial army. And always have.
Click to expand...
British policies to "keep Palestinians (and Zionists) in line" clearly failed as the defeat and the subsequent shambolic British withdrawal in 1948 proved. Israel, like Jordan,Syria, Iraq and Egypt was and is brutal post-war state but probably had little to learn from the fading colonial power that it defeated, and which Egypt under Nasser went on to defeat again less than a decade later.

The British Army in Palestine | National Army Museum.
 
TopCat said:
I’m more interested in what their involvement in the war might look like. What overt actions they may take.
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Their power would likely be expressed via their proxies in Lebanon and Syria.

What the US and Israel would be interested in, is how close are they to having a nuke or 2. Netanyahu has been gagging to bomb Iran for years and has been muzzled by the US thus far. Israel has been undermining Iran’s nuclear progress by other means such as hacking (see Stuxnet: Stuxnet explained: The first known cyberweapon) and assassinating scientists: Israel killed Iran’s top nuclear scientist with remote sniper rifle: report
 
Sue said:
'Hackney Council is facing a backlash from pro-Palestinian campaigners after describing the words ‘Free Palestine’ as “antisemitic”.

---

Hackney Council did not respond when asked to explain why it considers the words ‘Free Palestine’ to be antisemitic."

www.hackneycitizen.co.uk

Hackney Council sparks backlash from pro-Palestinian campaigners after removing ‘antisemitic’ graffiti

Palestine Solidarity Campaign condemns Middle East violence as it questions Town Hall’s response to the words ‘Free Palestine’
www.hackneycitizen.co.uk www.hackneycitizen.co.uk
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As far as I can see from that story, no one from Hackney Council is describing the words "Free Palestine" as antisemitic, rather they're saying that the reports of the graffiti from a Hackney resident described them as antisemitic.

And once any council receives reports of graffiti which the reporter considers racist, their priority is to remove it rather than analyse whether it meets their criteria for racism.
 
teqniq said:
In case you don't trust the source I posted which also says the same thing as quoted below, it links to this site which says:

View attachment 395908

www.bicom.org.uk

UK and Israel sign military agreement - BICOM

What happened: The British Armed forces and the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have signed a joint agreement to strengthen their relationship. Last Thursday, the UK’s Chief of Defence Staff, Gen. Sir Nicholas Carter and the IDF Chief of Staff, Lt Gen Aviv Kochavi met via video link and signed the...
www.bicom.org.uk www.bicom.org.uk
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that means that the nature of the cooperation is particularly secret....
 
The beeb is going with 1,000 now too. What kind of ordnance could have done this if it was a mistake? Presumably this had to be more than one strike.
 
Petcha said:
The beeb is going with 1,000 now too. What kind of ordnance could have done this if it was a mistake? Presumably this had to be more than one strike.
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Bearing in mind hospitals in Gaza will be packed to the rafters with people forced to flee from elsewhere, on top of the sick and wounded.
 
planetgeli said:
Good to see the BBC are still saying 'alleged airstrike' and 'alleged incident' as AJ show pictures of the bombs being dropped and the hospital on fire.
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They're reporting the first picture they have as of 3 minutes ago. Heaven forbid they leap to conclusions. You'd no doubt be whinging if they made a mistake.
 
andysays said:
As far as I can see, no one from Hackney Council is describing the words "Free Palestine" as antisemitic, rather they're saying that the reports of the graffiti from a Hackney resident described them as antisemitic.
Click to expand...
So the article says:

Hackney’s interim chief executive, Dawn Carter-McDonald, said last week: “We received reports of antisemitic graffiti, which we removed immediately.”

So yes, 'received reports' may not say 'we think it's antisemitic' (although it could certainly be interpreted that way) but responding 'received reports of graffiti a local resident found antisemitic' might've been better.

(Clearly no-one's reported the 'Free Palestine' graffiti on the post office on Kingsland Rd yet.)
 
andysays said:
As far as I can see from that story, no one from Hackney Council is describing the words "Free Palestine" as antisemitic, rather they're saying that the reports of the graffiti from a Hackney resident described them as antisemitic.

And once any council receives reports of graffiti which the reporter considers racist, their priority is to remove it rather than analyse whether it meets their criteria for racism.
Click to expand...
So they will be removing Vote Labour posters then?
 
Gramsci said:
Campaign against the Arms Trade statement.

Agree with this. There are things this country can do. One is stop supplying Israeli State military. Or supporting them in any way. Such as sending navy out there.



caat.org.uk

CAAT - CAAT Statement: Palestine

CAAT condemns the attacks which have caused the death and injury of thousands of civilians and stands in solidarity and compassion with all those affected by the atrocities, both in Gaza and Israel, and in communities around the world where there has been a drastic escalation in anti-Semitism...
caat.org.uk caat.org.uk
Click to expand...

British campaign group Palestine Action focus on the arms aspect and I think it's a good angle for people living here to focus on as the campaign can and has had a tangible effect and leads to broader consideration of the arms industry
www.palestineaction.org

Palestine Action

The direct action network taking down Israel's arms trade in Britain
www.palestineaction.org www.palestineaction.org
 
belboid said:
You omit the history or empire. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain wanted to ensure it had influence over one constant, and there wasn't an arabic (or Persian) country that hadn't been fucked over by us, so it needed somewhere. And what better place than where there was already a 'mandate'? Being able to use it to split other arabic nations was just a bonus.
Click to expand...
The main British vassal in the region in the postwar era was Jordan, not Israel where the army was under British control until after Suez when The King felt he had both the power to oust them. It was that British led army that annexed the Palestinian West Bank to Jordan in 1948 and it remained under Jordanian occupation until 1968 when the Israeli occupation began.

The Glubb Paradox and King Hussein’s Quest for Control of the Arab Legion (Chapter 7) - Glubb Pasha and the Arab Legion
 
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