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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

Ex-MP quits Labour over Starmer’s backing for ‘collective punishment’ of Palestine​

nation.cymru

Ex-MP quits Labour over Starmer's backing for 'collective punishment' of Palestine

Martin Shipton A former Labour MP living in Wales is one of several prominent activists to resign from the party because of Sir Keir Starmer’s support for the “collective punishment” of Palestinians. Lynne Jones was the MP for Birmingham Selly Oak from 1992 to 2010. After stepping down from...
nation.cymru
 
TopCat said:
Well the last time they went in after that huge bombardment they didn’t stay long. Easier politically to flatten large parts of Gaza. Gas the tunnels they find, possibly rescue a few of the captured then get the fuck out.

This would possibly satisfy political opinion at home and not be so heinous (in Israeli eyes) as to draw in Hezbollah. The latter are surely equipped now in a way they were not in 2006.
Click to expand...

With that government it is so difficult to say what they are doing. The hopeful part of me wants to believe that statement was someone trying to walk back all the blood-curdling rhetoric of the past ten days, but it could just be that they are going to keep the siege up until some kind of deal is agreed.
 
phildwyer said:
So it seems. But why? Why is the UK so heavily committed to Israel? What benefit do we gain from it?
Click to expand...
A big three questions. Answer to the first is perhaps guilt over not preventing the Holocaust (bombing train lines was suggested). An element of the second is UK status as a US vassal. Answer to the third is nothing of value (arms sales apart).
 
Larry O'Hara said:
A big three questions. Answer to the first is perhaps guilt over not preventing the Holocaust (bombing train lines was suggested). An element of the second is UK status as a US vassal. Answer to the third is nothing of value (arms sales apart).
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TBF I don't think any of them are as important as the considerable resources poured into lobbying have been.
 
Larry O'Hara said:
A big three questions. Answer to the first is perhaps guilt over not preventing the Holocaust (bombing train lines was suggested). An element of the second is UK status as a US vassal. Answer to the third is nothing of value (arms sales apart).
Click to expand...

Yes, there's nothing obvious that explains it. It's obvious what damage the alliance does us--it infuriates the entire Muslim world--but I'm at a loss to see any benefit.
 
TopCat said:
That would only happen if the Israelis got battered in the war and had to negotiate from a place of weakness. It won’t happen because of attempts to hold the Israelis to account or by worldwide shaming of them.
They don’t give a fuck.
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if the Israelis got battered in a war they're be genoicded they know this.
History shows them what happens when Jews rely on international law to save them.
It didn't end well.
 
teqniq said:
Another hospital has been hit this evening:

Click to expand...


That's what I'm talking about.

Hundreds feared dead in Israeli airstrike on Gaza hospital​

An Israeli airstrike has struck the Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist Hospital in the centre of Gaza City, according to Palestinian authorities.

Initial estimates indicate that between 200 and 300 people were killed in the bombing that targeted the hospital, a Gaza health ministry spokesperson said.

Many of the wounded appeared to be women and children, Al Jazeera reported. The hospital was sheltering families amid Israel’s continued bombardment of Gaza.
 
tim said:
Netanyahu is not the Israeli government. Moreover, anyone be they ska invita or a political opponent making a diagnosis of psychopathy based on a half remember Jin Ronqson documentary from 15 years ago should not be taken seriously.

If ska invita can give evidence of having the medical expertise and access to Netanyahu in a clinical context, I might retract but would probably ask for a second opinion first.
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First Google result Psychopath definition
"A person who is manipulative, dishonest, narcissistic, unremorseful, non-empathetic, and exploitative may be a psychopath"
... He is all those things. This isn't a clinical assessment it's recognising someones character by their actions.

If it makes you feel better "he has the characteristics of a psychopath"
 
ska invita said:
First Google result Psychopath definition
"A person who is manipulative, dishonest, narcissistic, unremorseful, non-empathetic, and exploitative may be a psychopath"
... He is all those things. This isn't a clinical assessment it's recognising someones character by their actions.

If it makes you feel better "he has the characteristics of a psychopath"
Click to expand...
Those who presume to govern their fellow man are a self-selecting cohort of psychopathic types.
 
teqniq said:
All the while this is in place - and it would likely be difficult indeed to undo, there will be no arms embargo on Israel from the UK (it would have been difficult before this but even more so now).

israelradar.com

Israel, Britain Sign Secret Military Agreement

Details of new Israel-Britain defense agreement 'highly classified'; IDF, UK armed forces wish to integrate military capabilities, says think tank.
israelradar.com israelradar.com
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Thanks for this. I did wonder but thought it might be conspiracy loon stuff to think that British military and Israeli military work so closely. In a official if secret way.

As this is secret their has been no democratic oversight of it. Which is appalling. Britain hardly can say it has a neutral role in this ongoing conflict.

I think its scandalous, if not surprising , the British military work with Israel army.

Historically the British taught the Zionists some of their well honed techniques for keeping the Palestinians in line. During Arab Revolt in 1930s Orde Wingate feared Night Squads included Zionists. Collective punishment/ detention all learnt from British.

In some ways I'd say that IDF operate like a colonial army. And always have.
 
planetgeli said:
That's what I'm talking about.

Hundreds feared dead in Israeli airstrike on Gaza hospital​

An Israeli airstrike has struck the Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist Hospital in the centre of Gaza City, according to Palestinian authorities.

Initial estimates indicate that between 200 and 300 people were killed in the bombing that targeted the hospital, a Gaza health ministry spokesperson said.

Many of the wounded appeared to be women and children, Al Jazeera reported. The hospital was sheltering families amid Israel’s continued bombardment of Gaza.
Click to expand...
-----> ICC Den Haag
 
ska invita said:
First Google result Psychopath definition
"A person who is manipulative, dishonest, narcissistic, unremorseful, non-empathetic, and exploitative may be a psychopath"
... He is all those things. This isn't a clinical assessment it's recognising someones character by their actions.

If it makes you feel better "he has the characteristics of a psychopath"
Click to expand...
Doctor Google leaps to the defence.
 
planetgeli said:
That's what I'm talking about.

Hundreds feared dead in Israeli airstrike on Gaza hospital​

An Israeli airstrike has struck the Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist Hospital in the centre of Gaza City, according to Palestinian authorities.

Initial estimates indicate that between 200 and 300 people were killed in the bombing that targeted the hospital, a Gaza health ministry spokesperson said.

Many of the wounded appeared to be women and children, Al Jazeera reported. The hospital was sheltering families amid Israel’s continued bombardment of Gaza.
Click to expand...
At least 500 dead. The live youtube feed from al-Jazeera is heartbreaking
 
Larry O'Hara said:
A big three questions. Answer to the first is perhaps guilt over not preventing the Holocaust (bombing train lines was suggested). An element of the second is UK status as a US vassal. Answer to the third is nothing of value (arms sales apart).
Click to expand...
You omit the history or empire. After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain wanted to ensure it had influence over one constant, and there wasn't an arabic (or Persian) country that hadn't been fucked over by us, so it needed somewhere. And what better place than where there was already a 'mandate'? Being able to use it to split other arabic nations was just a bonus.
 
phildwyer said:
Why is the UK so heavily committed to Israel? What benefit do we gain from it?
Click to expand...

I've already provided an unavoidable answer in post 3061, which you ignored:

for truth said:
there's a huge (and racist) kind of anti-islamism that exists in most 'western' (=white, libral, judeo-christian) cultures, that needs zionism in a 'my enemy's enemy is my friend' type of way and sees Israel as a bastion of aforementioned white, liberal judeo-christian-ness in a sea of brown muslimness there in the middle east. I suspect these kinds of 'I stand with Israel' types would chuck Jews under buses both metaphorical and real, in another context.
Click to expand...

tl;dr, its not about loving Israel, it's about hating arabs.
 
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