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Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

GarfieldLeChat said:
ok so if i cam einto your house and smashed it up would you hitting be be a reasonable response to that or is it that in hitting me you then are expectign me to escalte thing becuase i can't ignore hitting you.

look at the time line.

the aggessor is Isreal not Gaza. therefore they have every right to defend themselves or do you think that the Falkland island farmers shouldn't have resisited the Argitinan soliders or that them defending their land which you also fought for was provocatvie towards argentina.

think about it stop being such a lick spittle...

how has invaded whose land and refuses depite international condennation since 1948 to remove their armies from another countries land.



there's so many falices in this statement it's not true lets address them indivudually shall we:

Palestine is not a race, no but it's a culture as such there's no such thing as race we are all homosapien so what anyone means as you well know is culture when they say race. If you are trying to express that there is no culture in palestine then you are a fool...

it goes from the notion of having no independant state it's something both you and keyboard jockey seem to follow in mind set. The act there has not been an independant palestinain state doesn't mean there isn't a legitimacy in wanting one or make it's legitimacy anyless vaild else we wouldnt now have serbia croatia kosovo etc.... so we have precdeedent both historically and recently.

the original partition plan created both palestine and Isreal if there is legitmacy to Isreals existance then by extension there is legitmacy to palestines existance you cannot have one without the other as it was the same mandate which partitioned manditory palestine and shared it between the two nations.



yup great idea i'm thinking back to the 1948 boarders should do it.. therefore also illiminating the need for it as it would be the correct thing to do...


what has this got to do with your willful refuseal to accept the totally legfitimate struggle by a nation ofr it's independance against what is one of the most advance and ruthless technological nations in the world.

it cn only be your own personal attitude towards arab which blinds you like this in which you fail utterly to see the humantiy in the situation.
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I usually find that resorting to personal abuse is somewhat indicative of both a weak argument and an unreasonable support for the abuser's point of view.

I am attempting to view the situation objectively.

Israel's response, at the moment, could be perceived as disproportionate, however, 340 rockets fired in the last four weeks have escalated Israel's response. If the rocket attacks continue, I would imagine that Israel's response will escalate. They require to do what is necessary to stop the rockets.

I notice that not one of you has had the good grace to highlight the fact that Israeli children are being maimed by the rockets, perhaps this information doesn't fit your agenda?
 
tangentlama said:
How many Gazan deaths will it take to shame an Israeli?
I don't want to find out the answer to such a question.

The focus needs to be on saving the lives - on treating the injured, and allowing those not involved in the conflict to flee to a place of safety - and I mean all those not directly involved in the conflict here - Palestinian and Israeli.
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I completely agree.
 
Sasaferrato said:
I usually find that resorting to personal abuse is somewhat indicative of both a weak argument and an unreasonable support for the abuser's point of view.
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there's no abuse i'm question your 100% statement which lfys in the face of al perceived wisdom....

Sasaferrato said:
I am attempting to view the situation objectively.
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not by saying you offer unoquiviable support to one side it doesn't.

Sasaferrato said:
Israel's response, at the moment, could be perceived as disproportionate, however, 340 rockets fired in the last four weeks have escalated Israel's response. If the rocket attacks continue, I would imagine that Israel's response will escalate. They require to do what is necessary to stop the rockets.
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as opposed to the escaltion of barricading in half a nation in the most densly packed population on the planet for nearly 3 years after they democratically elected their government, which wasn't the one Isreal wanted so they started doing deals with the opposition who had set up an illigitmate govtment. you mean... which is what has happened imagine if the tories got in here and europe said wwell actually your not pro europe at all so we'll only deal with the Labour party you amonst others would be in uproar.

you are attempting to strip away the context and highlight this as stand alone case. which it isn't and what's more it's utterly revisionist.


Sasaferrato said:
I notice that not one of you has had the good grace to highlight the fact that Israeli children are being maimed by the rockets, perhaps this information doesn't fit your agenda?
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again i ask you is that the price of 1 Isreali life 100 Palestinians. whos apply what moral realitivity to what now?
 
Further to your post 148.

I don't quite understand why you feel that I have any antipathy towards Arabs, other than the fairly natural annoyance that the largely Arab OPEC has us literally ' over a barrel '.

There is a profound difference between culture and race, your observation that there are no races is not correct, the peoples of say Australia and the USA, in their pre-colonisation state are quite different people to those of Europe or the Middle East, I appreciate that there have been common ancestors, but this is true for all living things if you go back far enough. I take it that you do not feel that a cat is the same race as a cow?

I should perhaps clarify, I take no joy whatsoever in the death or injury of anyone. I am one of the few people on the boards that experienced the terror of war first hand. I KNOW what it is like to be on the receiving end of air strikes, and would not wish that on anyone.

This conflict is not going to be resolved by force, unless the force was a UN occupying force, it must be resolved by dialogue, and dialogue will not start whilst rockets are going one way and aircraft the other.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
there's no abuse i'm question your 100% statement which lfys in the face of al perceived wisdom....



not by saying you offer unoquiviable support to one side it doesn't.



as opposed to the escaltion of barricading in half a nation in the most densly packed population on the planet for nearly 3 years after they democratically elected their government, which wasn't the one Isreal wanted so they started doing deals with the opposition who had set up an illigitmate govtment. you mean... which is what has happened imagine if the tories got in here and europe said wwell actually your not pro europe at all so we'll only deal with the Labour party you amonst others would be in uproar.

you are attempting to strip away the context and highlight this as stand alone case. which it isn't and what's more it's utterly revisionist.




again i ask you is that the price of 1 Isreali life 100 Palestinians. whos apply what moral realitivity to what now?
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The wall has dropped the number of suicide bombings in Israel dramatically. There has been one bombing in the last couple of weeks, and this was the first for months. Again, a response by Israel to an untenable situation.

Let me make it clear. One life lost, on either side is one too many. I have not, and never will, suggest that the life of a Palestinian is worth less than that of an Israeli.

You seem to be unable to see where things have come from, you criticise the wall, you make no mention of the reason for the wall. You are every bit as partisan on this situation as I am, you just happen to support the opposite side in the conflict from me.
 
Sasaferrato said:
The wall has dropped the number of suicide bombings in Israel dramatically. There has been one bombing in the last couple of weeks, and this was the first for months. Again, a response by Israel to an untenable situation.
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This is a specious argument. How can a wall that cannot stop illegal Palestinian workers* from entering Israel, be stopping suicide bombers?

Don't believe the hype.



*(around 1,700 were rounded up in late 2007 in one week alone)
 
 
Sasaferrato said:
I usually find that resorting to personal abuse is somewhat indicative of ... a weak argument
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Sasaferrato said:
#139
It seems that to the Jew haters, only Israel is guilty here.
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So you repeat the abusive libel that those who criticise the state of Israel are "Jew-haters", then a page later announce that those who are abusive have lost the argument.

QED.
 
Sasaferrato said:
The potential of each rocket is equal, chance alone dictates where it will fall.
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Although for the most part the "rockets" aren't rockets at all, but improvised non-guided explosive devices (more akin to mortars, really) with a very short range and a habit of not detonating.

Just thought I'd mention that, as the "rocket" myth is being propagated again.

You see, if the state of Israel were being regularly attacked from Gaza by volleys of Katyushas, or by ground-based guided missiles, I'd judge what the IDF has done as reasoned retaliation, but as it is, they're using the misdeeds of a small number of idiots with poor weaponry as an excuse to assault an entire population with efficient modern weaponry.
 
a 13 year old kid just got shot :mad:

surely the killing of a hundred palestinians in less than two days is a war crime? I dont get how it isnt :confused:
 
Its good to see that Fatah are getting behind their brothers in Gaza. Abbas has broken all contact with Israel. That'll teach em.
 
From the Times comment page:

"What would we do if Welsh nationalists were firing rockets daily into Beth or Bristol?"

hmmm is it me or have people forgotten the regular bombings that were happening not too long ago thanks to Britain's involvement in Northern Ireland?

Did our jet fighters bomb Irish children playing football? There was an army presence in N.I. but we did not bomb and attack civilian centres as a policy. We did not build a wall around Belfast cutting off all supplies and denying the very basic human rights that we hold so sacred. The people of N.I. could visit a hospital and get medical treatment without waiting months for permission!

It seems to me that Israel gets away with a lot by using 'self-defence' as a means of justifiying her actions!

The vast majority of Palestininian people try to live their lives as best they can in peace. For the actions of a handful of extremists the whole population gets punished is this right?

How can military action even begin to solve this problem?
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Seattle commentator Richard Silverstein asks:
Can someone tell me what purpose any of this serves? All of it. Not just the genocidal rhetoric, which is bad enough, but the just plain bad policy which does nothing to resolve the problem. If Hamas has imported Katyushas that can reach Ashkelon is the way to defend Israel killing children and other civilians? And even if Israel has killed the rocket launching personnel themselves what will this stop when there are scores waiting in line to take their place once they are "martyred?"

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/t...ster-we-will-bring-holocaust-on-palestinians/
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frogwoman said:
But dont criticise Israel for doing that ... they're just defending themselves dont you know??? do you want to see Israel DRIVEN INTO THE SEA BY ISLAMOFASCISM?

:mad: :mad: :mad:
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I think you heard wrong. I'm sure it was 'Don't you want to see an Israeli driven to the seaside by a Muslim taxidriver'?
 
tangentlama said:
I think you heard wrong. I'm sure it was 'Don't you want to see an Israeli driven to the seaside by a Muslim taxidriver'?
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:D

Dont trust those Muslims. First they drive you to the seaside, and then ... and then ... before you know it you're living in an ISLAMIC STATE!

it's just as well we've got brave souls like ehud olmert and george bush to sort them out :cool:

:mad:
 
frogwoman said:
:D

Dont trust those Muslims. First they drive you to the seaside, and then ... and then ...
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... they're offering to never attack an Israeli again in exchange for a return to pre-67 borders to form their own state within, and the right of return for the Palestinian diaspora. And the cheek of them saying they'd allow Jews who wanted to remain in the newly formed Palestinian state to live there as citizens with equal rights! They're supposed to be our enemies FFS!
:mad: :p
 
I really dont get why the Israeli government arent up for war crimes charges though. I mean there cant be tht much difference surely between the actions of Milosevic, the Sudanese government, and Saddam, and these guys, if there is a difference at all. They're just behaving like any other bunch of genocidal dictators that have ever existed in the world, and Milosevic also justified his behaviour with what terrorists in the KLA were doing, so how come he and the other dictators I mentioned are all reviled, but Israel is still supported? Sorry but there isn't a difference except one country has the backing of the West and the others didnt, so they get punished and the Israelis dont.

I really dont get it, and I dont get it why people like Sass and KBJ are defending this latest attack, which is obviously completely indefensible.
 
frogwoman said:
I really dont get why the Israeli government arent up for war crimes charges though. I mean there cant be tht much difference surely between the actions of Milosevic, the Sudanese government, and Saddam, and these guys, if there is a difference at all. They're just behaving like any other bunch of genocidal dictators that have ever existed in the world, and Milosevic also justified his behaviour with what terrorists in the KLA were doing, so how come he and the other dictators I mentioned are all reviled, but Israel is still supported? Sorry but there isn't a difference except one country has the backing of the West and the others didnt, so they get punished and the Israelis dont.

I really dont get it, and I dont get it why people like Sass and KBJ are defending this latest attack, which is obviously completely indefensible.
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no war crimes because when Sharron who was charged with war crimes it made not a blind bit of difference. Ideed he even had the cheek to once say i will not sit down and discuss with terrrorist, aparrently all his meetings were standing only from then on... ;) :D
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
no war crimes because when Sharron who was charged with war crimes it made not a blind bit of difference. Ideed he even had the cheek to once say i will not sit down and discuss with terrrorist, aparrently all his meetings were standing only from then on... ;) :D
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:D What was he charged with?
 
Oh just looking at it now and he got away on a technicality ... as did one of the perpetrators of the rwanda genocide ...
 
i really dont get why the rest of them - Olmert et al - dont get that treatment though. I mean the evidence is there, isnt it? is there no chance of them being brought to a tribunal or anything at all?
 
frogwoman said:
Yeah ... but accrodin to something i was just reading, belgium couldn't try him on it's soil for some reason ...
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As I recall it, Belgium passed a law that anyone could be prosecuted there for war crimes, wherever committed.

Then they mysteriously weakened it again. Lobbying and threats of trade embargos may have been involved.

And then there are the more physical threats:

Papers reveal how alleged war criminal escaped UK arrest


· Former Gaza commander hid on El Al aircraft
· Police with warrant feared Heathrow gun battle

* Vikram Dodd, crime correspondent
* Wednesday February 20 2008

Scotland Yard allowed a suspected war criminal to escape from Britain partly because they feared an attempt to stop him would lead to a gun battle at Heathrow airport, police documents seen by the Guardian reveal. The former senior Israeli officer was supposed to be detained as he arrived in London for a speaking engagement, after a British court had ordered his arrest. But detectives looked on as he landed, then hid on the plane for two hours, before flying off to avoid arrest.

Read the police documents (pdf)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/feb/20/uksecurity.israelandthepalestinians
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Ooops - that PDF crashed my browser and I only just got back
 
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