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Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

Nino: I am who I am, the name I was given at birth. If you had an iota of iniative you would verify that as several others apparently have. That you call names and hide behind fake ones says more than you think but there I go, feeding into the whole childish dynamic. Par for the course but I will do my best to change it.

You're an inveterate liar and you've shown up on this forum too many times to count. Perhaps you've heard of the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?

You're well known on the Internet for showing up on message boards where you believe you have found the 'enemy' and making lots of noise. You have something of a reputation for being disingenuous...what more can I say? Your reputation precedes you, as it were.
 
As for Nino's inane suggestion that any Jewish organisation could have ever got it together enough to force nearly a million (actually much more) Jews to flee is ludicicrous but then...

As or discrimination, Israeli-Arabs have the right to emigrate and yet rarely does it happen, perhaps it has a bit to do with their enjoying the highest standard of living in the entire Middle-East?

What are you babbling about, you ementhal-brained lunatic?

Your second paragraph is little more than Ministry of [Dis] Information propaganda. Cute.
 
Durruti: First, the 2 State Solution was iniated not by the Un but by its predecessor and not in 48 but in 1919. At the time there was NO debate on anything having to do with the Arabs save whether or not we should bite at the proposed aliance being floated for both our peoples.

By 48 we had endured a 16 year spate of Arab violence, unreciprocated, (1920 to 1936) that had led Revisionist Zionist by 48 to clamor for a much more stronger response to the porposed and real threats to our existence.

750,000 Arabs did not flee, even most Arab moderates agree that it is more to the tune of 450,000, still an astounding number....except that most fled without a single Zionist whisper. Witness today's 2.2 million Israeli-Arab CITIZENS.

The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands? Arab nations admit to close to 900,00 with 3 billion US in property so maybe that will provide a counter issue.

As for Nino's inane suggestion that any Jewish organisation could have ever got it together enough to force nearly a million (actually much more) Jews to flee is ludicicrous but then...

As or discrimination, Israeli-Arabs have the right to emigrate and yet rarely does it happen, perhaps it has a bit to do with their enjoying the highest standard of living in the entire Middle-East?

i used '48 as that was Israels birthday ..

was not the arab violence to an agree understandable looking at what some of the zionists believed about arabs?

re the arab exodus .. it is simply not ludicrous and most israeli academics today accept this in fact pretty well everyone accepts that the idf played a key role in this thru threat and at least one massacre .. look at Morris .. and his 4 stages of the exodus .. i am sure no one will deny taht some arab leaders had reason to support the exodus and Mahmoud Abbas admits this but it woudl be evry very wrong of you to deny that the major role was fear of the IDF

yes it is good isreal has arab citizens and yes they are better off than in most arab countries .. but how can they ever be equal in a zionist nation?

i agree that the same number of jews were expelled from arab countries .. but do you deny this was not encouraged both by zionist and by the 48 wwar?
 
it woudl be evry very wrong of you to deny that the major role was fear of the IDF
The IDF has admitted it. Well, sort of. There's an IDF Intelligence report from July 1948 (during a period of truce and about 1/2 way through the nakba) which clearly states that IDF action, direct and indirect, caused the vast bulk of the Arab exodus. Morris has studied it and published in an Ilan Pappe collection The Israel/Palestine Question.

I'll type up some excerpts when I get chance
 
Nino: Tsk, tsk, I told you Whiteman that I am whom I am and if it irks you that you see Jews with Knowledge of Self, get analysis. Now can we focus on the issues, which by the way are not your obsession with Conspiracy Theories.


Durruti: Did some Zionists believe Arabs to be this or that? For sure but that is in EVERY society on the planet. You must look at my naton's history for the key. We were Labour Socialist, almost Communist, until the mid-80s.Our real debates centered around how to include minosirties, not only Arabs, in the full scheme.

Make no mistake, I was, as is often mentioned here, a Kahanist as a youth. I advocated full separation of our 2 Peoples (but was not fully with our program which was about population, -voluntary- transfer. The reason I ofer this paragraph is fof full disclosure.

I am explaining my country's history at time when it was very tumultutous but not as portrayed here.

You are quoting Morris to me? Morris was the first person to "document" this and he relied on one elderly Arab said to have been a drunkard in the mid 50s. The Jews he quotes? Sued him in court for defamation. We have discussed it here ad naseum, per Invisible but check the other side of that coin. Propaganda need not come frm Arabs. The fact that we have such Israelis proves the claim of our facism is nothing but garbage. Would Morris even have ever published in such an atmosphere?

The IDF did not exist until after Statehood and then, yes, we committted what I myself now consider an atrocity when we did cleanse a few border villages. We bussed them to the border and told them to run holding their possesions but that was 1951 to 53, we fought for our lives and if that was all that happaned they are lucky considering what my own family has suffered in Arab lands.

If you mean that Irgun,etc. committed atrocities in 47-49, they sure did but they have been grossly overplayed for propaganda, just l;ike that 750,000 figure. One forgets Musa, Tel Chai, and so on.

Did Zionists encourage Jews to come to Israel? Have they ever NOT? But therre is a distinct diffference between saying come home and committing crimes against your own peeople to promote the idea...which is the idea floated within this forum,etc. Again, my own family was in Syria (some of us still our, my clan is Dweck/Dwek for anyone who cares) and I know the rigermororole from a distinct perspective.

"How can Arabs ever be equal in a Zionist nation?": Good question actually. I will explain. First, are minorities "equal" in any nation? They are, if lucky enough to be living in Liberal Democracies (such as ours) to be able to adjust their status if need be according to demographics. This is the reasoning behind Lieberman's proposed tradeoff of Galilee to the Arabs for the "WB." This is laos the reasoning behind our ruling party, of which I am a member and former organser, Arab demographics, citizen wse stand at 2.2. Imagine annexation of the "Territories?" We would be voted out of existence. This is how Arabs are "equal."

Spion: Quoting anything in Pappe is straight propaganda of the worst kind. Agan it proves what it claims does not exist, a democracy.
 
Spion: Quoting anything in Pappe is straight propaganda of the worst kind. Agan it proves what it claims does not exist, a democracy.
You're talking out of your hole. They are Israeli archives quoted by Morris. If he was making it up he would no longer be working and there would be reams of articles about his dishonesty on this issue. Find me one shred that can show that. I challenge you
 
"Morris would no longer be working.": You want to go there again? Only positive thing that vampire has ever done was unmask Finkelstein but that was more than likely due to egotism than any true love of truth. Even most pro-Arabs hate his guts as too pro-Zionist. Talk about clusterfuc^.

You challenge me? OK, I love a true challenge based on real facts and since you managed to spit it out sans expletives here goes:

First of all you as a foreigner seem completely oblivious to the fact that he has done a 360 since his early nonsense of Israeli atrocities. He still does content that we took some hyper-violent actions but that they were completely justified and provoked in fact by even more heinous actions by Arabsd themselves. This is who you are defending.

But let us talk of your challenge where youy ask how he could work . He is working because of a Ha'aretz interview where he took that 360. He would be working none the less because as even you know, people like Pappe find work in our democratic state. However Morris' income is now made turning his previous nonsense on its ars*.

In his earlier incarnation Morris seems to, since he is a Hebrew speaker like myself, to have purposely mistranslated key quotes by Gurion on the Arab issue (claiming Gurion called for expulsion when in fact the full passage it is in fact the exact opposite)! He claims 13 "leaders" of a nation (Israel) that did not even exist stamped their ok onto a policy on the Arab Right of Return. Utter BS if you actually read Ben Gurion.

In same referenced work Morris misstated the number of "Palestinian" refugees as 700,000, a number even most CURRENT PA personel piss on. The actual number stands at around 450,000.

The 8/18/48 meeting? Read Gurion's actual diary please.

He also claims that Sharett argued for explusion of internal Arabs when in fact the exact opposite occurred. Sharett argued that any Arab who had remained within the Armisitice (Green Line) regardless of their having or hanving not taken up arms against us should be allowed to stay on any deeded land.

Want to continue this?
 
Talk about not answering the question! You have failed the challenge - which was to show that the IDF Intelligence Services report "The emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the period 1/12/1947 - 1/6/1948*" dated 30 June 1948 was not correct in saying that the bulk of the Arab exodus was due to direct and indirect action by Zionists forces. That is what Morris has cited and which forms an admission by the Haganah/IDF of its culpability in ethnically cleansing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians.

(*Quoted at length by B Morris in his article, 'The causes and character of the Arab exodus from Palestine: The IDF Intelligence Service analysis of June 1948', in I Pappe -edit- 'The Israel/Palestine Question' . . . I'll post up some choice excerpts when I get time)
 
Spion: I believe that I was quite clear that Morris fabricates and misrepresents, or used to since has "Converted to the Right", his "info." You make your claim and ignore everything I posted which absolutely proves his dishonesty.

Garfield: Where am I from? My father was born in "Palestine," but due to his having came to work in the USA I was born there. As a young boy I spent all summers in Israel and then went there permanantly before I was a teen. I then entered the army at age 16 and served almost 6 years in Lebanon during Galilee.

You want the full scoop? I left Active Duty (I reupped after my mandatroy which is no longer an easy thing to do but was at the time of our big war) at age 22.5 and headed on my Walkabout which is what most of us do after our Active Duty.

Mine, with my squadmates (surviving) and some of our platoon mates began in Thailand where we based in Bangkok while exploring the region for nearly a year. At age 23 and change I headed back to the US for a stab at money. My nation was converting from heavy Socialism to Capitalism and unemployment (I had not even gotten into my higher education yet) was mad high.

I worked as a mover , a rade we control actually, in the NYC area and headed to Delray Beach in Florida to work at a branch of the biz. Then to the other coast of Florida, Tampa, and then back north.

Time for Reserve Call up, did mine, came back to NYC and began driving lorries, 53 foot trailers filled with extruded aluminum between there, Tampa, and Dallas Texas with stopovers in Lousinanna (Sidell).

Interesting, yes?

In my first year of military service I took bullet fragments through ther bottom of my chin and up into my sinuses where some still sit. It took part of my jaw with it, blah,blah. By age 20 I took shrapnel and had a few months back south and they sent me to Techkino where i majored in agirucltural sciences.

I only managed a few semesters though as i mentioned earlier, not having much of a higher education. Back in the States though i enrolled in NYU, the State university in NY and managed to get to my 3rd year and switched majors to anthropology which has always been quite interesting.

By the end of the year though I had a brainstorm and combined my 2 interests into a major of ethno-botany and transferred to the ethno program at Ithaca, also in NY, but north of the cty.

4th year, bac for Reserves.

Graduated.

Did my mandatory little internship in the field at Bronx Botanical Gardens but by this point I managed to snag a union book as an excavator, what they call a Sandhog in the States.

From that point i worked underground, not always doing Reservesa but doing enough to serve in both so called Intifadehs although in one I did not see any combat.

Finallly last year I served in he short war, and had managed to cashier out as a Captain. In my country we do not promote to thaty rank except for combat time, and then afterwards it is based n aptitude and connections.

Want more? At 16 I was matched with a girl whose clan came from Yemen, we had 4 kids, one died in infancy. 3 are alive, thanks to G-D, with all 3 in Active Duty.

I also fathered 3 children in N. America, 2 in America and 1 in Mexico.


Let me see...Ahhhh, my opiate clouded brain....that is courtesy of a PLO bullet fradment that got me addicted to morphine. The army iniated methadone for many of us, which I was on for almost 17 of my 24 years of addiction. I am now back on morphine, although it is a maintenance dosage of 90 mgs. IR, in a single 24 hour period so I unfortunately do not manage to get "Clouded" too much. In fact it merely allows me to hold my food down.

I have also manmaged to travel quite a bit but have never been to Australia, NZ, and a few others. Nepal is one I intend to visit as well as Tibet, just got back from Cambodia and Thaialdn although I skipped Laos.

More? This is better than my BL Journal! I live here on Mindnao where we have the NPA, communist insurgents in combat about 1.5 km to my south as the mountains begin, with US forces particpating against this nation's Constitution, for anyone who cares. We also have 4 to 5, depending whom you speak to, Islamic insurgencies, 3 of which target people like me and this is why I am constantly armed while home.

I make my bread and butter milling rice and corn, I share 7 mills with my inlaws, we have 16 parcels of farmland owned and a few more leased, we mostly have wetlands for rice but we also grow Facalta and Miragyna for the furniture industry.

We also broker shiploads of other producer's lumber and have just expanded up into Japan.

I have a personal fetiliser manufacturing mill here, and have begun wholesaling Mitragyna (Kratom since it is Speciosa) whole leaf and even have 2 customers in the UK, plenty more in the EU but have not managed US Customs yet. Part of the reason I am going to NYC before the current Visa stamp expires April 1.

Want more?

Married to a 24 year old Filipina whom I met as an infant since her dad is my best friend, met him in Israel.

We though have not maged young ones yet.

My full name is Rachamim Ra'anan Ben Ami, my religious name is Yosef Mendel Ben Yankel Yehudah....What else? My Haftorah Parsha was Acrai Mot....

My Brigade was NACHAL< my g'dud was the 50th, you can even see me on Youtube if you give a damn. Spent most of my 23 years as aCommand Seargant, but was promoted while waiting to cross into Lebanon n 06.

Anything else "GARFIELD?" Tell me, did they argue with your mum when she put that on your birth certificate?
 
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