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Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

GarfieldLeChat said:
very intrestign rach now about those sources can you please finally post up the sources for where precisely ISM have admitted to doctering the photos of rachel correy being crushed by the bulldozer D9 please...

no more obfistaction post the evidence your sources and links or retract... we're still all waiting...
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Rachamim is still propagating the falsehood that Granny called his mother a cunt (although he was unable to post a link to the thread where Granny allegedly did so) and uses this as a cheap excuse for not providing the answers he promised. It's part and parcel of his bullshit.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
very intrestign rach now about those sources can you please finally post up the sources for where precisely ISM have admitted to doctering the photos of rachel correy being crushed by the bulldozer D9 please...

no more obfistaction post the evidence your sources and links or retract... we're still all waiting...
Click to expand...

You'll probably be given links to a reporter from the right-wing neocon FrontPageMag (run by David Horowitz) (see http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Lee_Kaplan).
Kaplan seems to be the main propagator of that storyline ()
 
Nino: You can play games all you want but in quoting al Bukhari, they did it and they do it on a weekly basis, usually, in their pamphlets.They actually do t 7 different times but of course that would be too much for your mindset to handle given your locked on one sided consideration.

The Avalon Project is run by Kahanists? Wow, that s just too precious.Yale University is a Kahanist Yeshiva now? Nino, at times you really out do yourself.

Panda: IF I even cared that she/he said it, other than to ignore their remarks, I might dig through bundles of archives . In reality, my life is a bit more meaningful than that. You . That entity (maybe your own alter ego), Nino, and other pathetic name callers can sit around and say what you want. The world keeps spinning.

Tangent: Actually, if you ACTUALLY study the subject, you will find it was the biggest story in Israel for about 3 days. Many, many sources both domestic and foreign reported on it.The photos are clearly doctored, as anyone who notices the disappearing treeline can attest to. What a bunch of fools, but hey, I know it is safer to sit in your comfort zone, behind child like screen names and say this or that. Far be it from me to try and make anyone see the truth.I provide facts, fools call names, is that not how it goes here? Status quo is a status quo after all.
 
rachamim18 said:
Tangent: Actually, if you ACTUALLY study the subject, you will find it was the biggest story in Israel for about 3 days. Many, many sources both domestic and foreign reported on it.The photos are clearly doctored, as anyone who notices the disappearing treeline can attest to. What a bunch of fools, but hey, I know it is safer to sit in your comfort zone, behind child like screen names and say this or that. Far be it from me to try and make anyone see the truth.I provide facts, fools call names, is that not how it goes here? Status quo is a status quo after all.
Click to expand...

no names here.

just a simple request post your sources seeing as there are many, many sources you'll be able to post them. and prove the photos are clearly doctored, as you provide facts.

we're all waiting...
 
Nino: You can play games all you want but in quoting al Bukhari, they did it and they do it on a weekly basis, usually, in their pamphlets.They actually do t 7 different times but of course that would be too much for your mindset to handle given your locked on one sided consideration.
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LOL!!! Says the poster who can't reply without lying and making things up. You know something? I don't even think you were a soldier; you're paid by some mad Zionist organisation to sit at a computer all day and make noise.

The Avalon Project is run by Kahanists? Wow, that s just too precious.Yale University is a Kahanist Yeshiva now? Nino, at times you really out do yourself.
Click to expand...

Have you ever considered a career as a fantasy writer? Terry Pratchett's got no flies on you.
 
I'd just like to say there's been some interesting discussion on threads in this forum of late (thanks to all concerned) but recently spoiled by the re-appearance of the gimp. Why give it the oxygen of attention? I finally found a use for the ignore button. :)
 
I have granny on ignore too. I considered it for a while, wondering if he represented the view of the israeli jew on-the-street, as it were. Considered that it might be useful to know how the average voting moron thought. In the end I realised that he isn't the average voting moron, he's a murderous racist who would set the agenda, rather than respond based on available knowledge to someone else's agenda. So given that he refuses to engage in debate, advocates ethic cleansing, and is generally the sort of person that makes you realise how flawed democracy is without education, I put him on ignore.
 
bluestreak said:
I have granny on ignore too. I considered it for a while, wondering if he represented the view of the israeli jew on-the-street, as it were. Considered that it might be useful to know how the average voting moron thought. In the end I realised that he isn't the average voting moron, he's a murderous racist who would set the agenda, rather than respond based on available knowledge to someone else's agenda. So given that he refuses to engage in debate, advocates ethic cleansing, and is generally the sort of person that makes you realise how flawed democracy is without education, I put him on ignore.
Click to expand...

you mean rach right... not granny?
 
rachamim18 said:
Panda: IF I even cared that she/he said it, other than to ignore their remarks, I might dig through bundles of archives . In reality, my life is a bit more meaningful than that. You . That entity (maybe your own alter ego), Nino, and other pathetic name callers can sit around and say what you want. The world keeps spinning.
Click to expand...
The problem for you is that several people did check the archives, in fact I believe one of the mods did too, at Grandma Death's request, in order to find whether this claim about G D calling your mother a cunt could be substantiated, it couldn't, and as some of our mods are computer professionals who know how to query a database, I'm inclined to believe that.

You've simply used a spurious claim in order to avoid providing the proofs requested of you, proofs that have been shown not to exist.

You're a joke. A very poor joke.
 
teqniq said:
I'd just like to say there's been some interesting discussion on threads in this forum of late (thanks to all concerned) but recently spoiled by the re-appearance of the gimp. Why give it the oxygen of attention? I finally found a use for the ignore button. :)
Click to expand...
Good post
 
rachamim18 said:
Tangent: Actually, if you ACTUALLY study the subject, you will find it was the biggest story in Israel for about 3 days. Many, many sources both domestic and foreign reported on it.The photos are clearly doctored, as anyone who notices the disappearing treeline can attest to.
Click to expand...
A source would be useful. I would prefer it if you provided one, however, I fail to see why you have brought up this typical objection into this particular discussion. We are in 2008 - we are in a different environment to the environment of 2003.

Rachamim said:
Far be it from me to try and make anyone see the truth.
Click to expand...
The truth? The truth is that in 2002, a survey indicated that 70% of all Israelis and Palestinians were ready to begin a settlement process in order to establish a Palestinian State based on the 1967 border. Here is a reminder: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/middle_east/2002/voices/
and
Now we know that the religious ultranationalists on both sides have been extremely difficult to bring to the negotiating table, but some 6 years on, in 2008, the Hamas are asking for third party negotiations, and the WB hardalim via the Yesha council have at least sat at the table with the Israeli government to discuss the illegal outposts and talk of evacuating to other settlements which Israeli Government is attempting to bring within it's borderline (unilaterally).

You want truth? The truth is that there is deep mistrust on both sides, especially from the religious ultranationalists on both sides, both who claim the land is forever [insert religion here], and at the same time, we see a mistrust towards the extremist thinkers from their own peoples, and a type of despair and concern at the formentation of civil war by external entitities, e.g the USA government armed Fatah warlord Dahlan in an attempt to overthrow the Hamas/create civil war-situation in Gaza, and USA charities, from both Jewish messianics and Christian messianics openly assist settler armaments, ideological support, and encourage civil war-style resistance against Israeli Government aims.

On the positive side, we see both Israelis and Palestinians calling for negotiations, and on Wednesday last, we saw legal rulings for the dismantlement of post 2001 illegal outpost dismantlement, esp. in the case of Migron, which is built on private Palestinian land, and with the aid of the Israeli Zionist Peace Now group - the elders of the Israeli Peace Movement, if you will, and we see an increase in media-coverage of non-violent Palestinian demonstrations, which once suffered from blackouts, even though they have always been in the majority. We have yet to see these peaceful demos conveyed as such on the Israeli visual and aural medias, where only a limited view of Palestinians is presented still. Increased coverage of voices for peace on both sides combined with everyday stories of everyday Israeli and Palestinian lives as they struggle with their own environment, feelings toward the other, and so forth would aid the building of trust between majorities on both sides - there are joint-groups between the Israelis and Palestinians which do achieve this, but they're are not given the exposure-priority they would require to ease the level of fear and provide accurate perceptions of the other.


Rachamim said:
I provide facts, fools call names, is that not how it goes here? Status quo is a status quo after all.
Click to expand...
This is nothing to do with me. Can I help it if you gave your dalliance with Kahanism in the past freely upon this forum and can I help the reactions of others? Why not make a separate thread about it? Discuss there your later gnosis that what you had been brought to was not a path forwards that all could tread. Personally, I think you should tell your story of your indoctrination in America as a child - and maybe write about it - "How I was religious ultranationalised into submission" or something :-/ Certainly not across several threads, where it can be lost, ignored, or slated etc.
 
Garfield:" No names...": You might have forgotten (obviously), but at the time I DID offer a link to the photos as well as an article on their being sold to the public as one and the same.I know that the photos, nor the games that group of charlatans (ISM) play are furthest from your mind, that you instead wish to turn this into some sort of witch hunt (very sad since people are actually dying as you sit wide eyed on your parents' computer). IF it is really such a burning hot issue for you, go back and search. Need not even search my posts,etc. Simply do a well rounded search and look at what Reuters took them to task for.


As for the other 2 issues that you and your alter ego love to harp on about, do a well rounded search of UVDA and Israeli Channel 2,

As for the words of Teqnic, I actually applaud them. IF he/she or anyone else finds a divergence of opinion so threatening, they too should utilise the Ignore function. It is there for a reason. We all know how sick and deluded any Zionist is, so let us stop with the personal attacks and refocus on the issues, please.

I would however like to address a comment made by Bluestreak, when have I EVER advocated ethnic cleansing? Saying this makes me question your sanity. I NEVER advocated it even in my early years so that is just a total lie, not suprising, just sad.
 
Sorry, had to switch machines as I am in a nation where computers have a bit to be desired...


Be that as it may...Further on Bluestreak, to suggest that any one person is representative of an entire nation is in itself a racist idea. You need to think about that. "Average voter on the street?" What the hell would that mean? Israel is a Liberal Democracy with millions of citizens and a multitude of parties, probably more than any other democracy and certainly on a per capita basis.

Panda: Here is the kicker though....whether or not they found my claim, and I stand by it, in the same exact thread where "Granny" disputes ever having said it, he/she calls ME a "cun%" so what is the difference? My mom? Me? It is the same lack of civility that has been plaugeing this forum since my first day (one can only imagine how far back it goes!)

So they could not find where my mother was called this or that? What of the general use of profanity and expletive laden ad hominem attacks. You miss the forest for the trees I think your saying goes.

Tangent: "I fail to see why Rachamim brought up this affair in 2008...": I did not, scroll back a bit and find who did. I have no need to argue until I am blue in the face about subjects I myself know to be true.

I have to ask you why you provide me with a poll, BBC no less, about border issues. Where did I argue anything close to that?

"YESHA has sat with the govt....": Um, of course since Centrism took hold it has been on the table and it is very real. Not all, but the vast majority of so called "Settlements" WILL be erased. Arabs will have the nation they have been offered repeatedly since 1919.

"Non-violent 'Palestinian' demos have always been in the majority...": WRONG. That is total rubbish. Wish it were near honest but it is total, unmitigated fantasy. You forget it seems, Israel does not bar anti-Israeli journalists from covering events both in the nation and in the so called "Territories." Where is the coverage? Non-existent, almost to a tee.

"Can Tangent help it if I talked of my past in Kahanism...": Who asked for help? I ask for civility and that should be given to anyone who offers it themself, no matter whether or not you detest their personal politics or lifestory. It is called being an adult.

Instead of hiding behind child screen names, for G-D's sake I should rename myself after a finger puppet,I tell the truth but here is the thing....From day one, when all I did was introduce myself and ADMIT that (at the time) I was an IDF Reservist I was demonised and such and I am sorry, but it is indicative of an atmosphere of hate and bullying that is all pervasive here. Want to defend it? Up to you. Me? I would rather talk about it and perhaps, just maybe, make a single person change their way of acting.
 
rachamim18 said:
Garfield:" No names...": You might have forgotten (obviously), but at the time I DID offer a link to the photos as well as an article on their being sold to the public as one and the same.I know that the photos, nor the games that group of charlatans (ISM) play are furthest from your mind, that you instead wish to turn this into some sort of witch hunt (very sad since people are actually dying as you sit wide eyed on your parents' computer). IF it is really such a burning hot issue for you, go back and search. Need not even search my posts,etc. Simply do a well rounded search and look at what Reuters took them to task for.


As for the other 2 issues that you and your alter ego love to harp on about, do a well rounded search of UVDA and Israeli Channel 2,

As for the words of Teqnic, I actually applaud them. IF he/she or anyone else finds a divergence of opinion so threatening, they too should utilise the Ignore function. It is there for a reason. We all know how sick and deluded any Zionist is, so let us stop with the personal attacks and refocus on the issues, please.

I would however like to address a comment made by Bluestreak, when have I EVER advocated ethnic cleansing? Saying this makes me question your sanity. I NEVER advocated it even in my early years so that is just a total lie, not suprising, just sad.
Click to expand...

lie.

no links provided stil waiting.

stop lying.

no links provided again stop wriggling and provide links.

are you also claiming that grandma death and i are the same logons becuase if you are attemptig to report a multipul usernamed poster for banning i suggest you use the report post function. beware though false accusations from known trolls have been know to earn people a permenat ban...

so my alter ego is who now again...

or alternately is it perhaps how you garner support and your tactics are showing under your pettiecoats....
 
danny la rouge said:
At least it's an admission they're already inflicting a holocaust on the Palestinians.

Breath-taking statement of intent.
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disgusting disgusting words from the Israeli ..

BUT, danny, by ANY stretch of the words, the Israelis are NOT 'inflicting a holocaust on the palestinians' are they? there has been a war for land which the isrealis ( funded by the US) have won and they have clearly pushed out many palestinians ( many arabs though remain in israel in 'freedom' ) .. to talk though of holocaust is to confuse scale massively .. and risk equating the Israle with Hitler ..
 
durruti02 said:
disgusting disgusting words from the Israeli ..

BUT, danny, by ANY stretch of the words, the Israelis are NOT 'inflicting a holocaust on the palestinians' are they? there has been a war for land which the isrealis ( funded by the US) have won and they have clearly pushed out many palestinians ( many arabs though remain in israel in 'freedom' ) .. to talk though of holocaust is to confuse scale massively .. and risk equating the Israle with Hitler ..
Click to expand...

So what are Israel inflicting on the Palestinians, durutti?

The Arab-Israelis: do they suffer from discrimination, do you think? Or are they, as both you and Rachamim suggest, 'freer' than those living on the WB or Gaza?
 
durruti02 said:
disgusting disgusting words from the Israeli ..

BUT, danny, by ANY stretch of the words, the Israelis are NOT 'inflicting a holocaust on the palestinians' are they? there has been a war for land which the isrealis ( funded by the US) have won and they have clearly pushed out many palestinians ( many arabs though remain in israel in 'freedom' ) .. to talk though of holocaust is to confuse scale massively .. and risk equating the Israle with Hitler ..
Click to expand...

you've never fucing been there have you son.

nor for that matter it would appear have you ever read either aorund the subjigation of the jews in pre ww2 germany or their treatment there in.

why is it so hard for you to understand? It's that they are jews behaving as facists isn't it. It makes you unable to compute the factors for you facist means nazi means hitler means anti jew.

The visable child of 5 logic is all to plain to see, time and time again with you.

Think of the settlers in Israel, as the Israeli equverlent to the White supremacists of the USA you know KKK ayran nation that sort of thing.

except they are allowed to carry guns and have almost never been brought to task for their murders, theift abuse.

Think every story you've ever heard with pure spite and prejudice retold by a tory about travellers then arm them... and they don't leave and indeed get govt money to stay and to increase their site further...

you say there's not a systemic murder of palestinians by industrial methods.

We call it ethnic cleansing these days to allow the holocaust to merely remeber one period in time...

however regardless of name any systematic attempt by a state or it's agents to errdicate and entirely remove all cultureal physical and literal reminders of a group of peoples is genocide. whatever fucking frame of refference you need to use to equate that in your ming ethnic cleansing, holocaust, massicare, slaughter etc etc etc which ever vitrolic rhetoric you need to use to get it though your skull that this is an attempt by a powerful militarised nation to utterly crush, wipe out and extinguish another group of people who were in the territory first.

more over you say it's not a comparitive scale really ... how many displaced palestinians are there again still living in permenant tempory accomiditation for the longest period of time?

you're right it would be utterly fair to say that since the exidous there has been no comparible disporia of peoples within judeic history which is comparable to what has happened to the palesitnians...

the closest proximity there would be would be the holocaust but in compartive terms the holocaust was shorter, and the world stepped in and stopped it...

It's been going on since 1948 we are in 2008 thats sitxy fucking years.

the holocaust didn't last 60 fucking years did it. with systemic touture murder beatings abuse children being taken families deleiberately destroy property stolen, land stolen water cut of well posioned... sixty years...

and yet again you and you aloof festishism for dismissing any poltical meaning to anything which isn't in your agenda portrays you ina a terrible light...

utterly disgusting behaviour....
 
nino_savatte said:
So what are Israel inflicting on the Palestinians, durutti?

The Arab-Israelis: do they suffer from discrimination, do you think? Or are they, as both you and Rachamim suggest, 'freer' than those living on the WB or Gaza?
Click to expand...

the palestinians are suffering from the consequence of the ultranationalism adopted by zionism .. zionism has indeed ethnicaly cleansed arab palestinians from many parts of palestine .. as you will be aware there is a debate about the 1948 exodus .. the consensus is that the zionists were split between those who thought they could create Eretz Israel by simple immigration and those who believed in ethnically cleansing the arabs .. and that in the 1948 war when the disasterous and impossible UN two state solution was imposed and attacked by the arab states, the explusion lobby won out. Interestingly Mahmoud Abbas is not alone among arab leaders who accept partial responsibility for the exodus .. but the fact remains 750k arabs were essentially driven out by the IDF .. i am sure you are ALSO aware that a similar number of jews were simultaneously 'driven out' from Arab states .. and again the coincidence of both expulsion and exhortations from zionists to leave mirrors what happened with the palestinian arabs

israeli arabs do suffer discrimination but are fairly well off with neighbouring state arabs materially and democratically .. democracy in syria jordan and eygpt has been pretty non existent as i am sure you will acknowledge
 
i am sure you are ALSO aware that a similar number of jews were simultaneously 'driven out' from Arab states .. and again the coincidence of both expulsion and exhortations from zionists to leave mirrors what happened with the palestinian arabs
Click to expand...

Have you read the history of Iraq or, better still, are you aware of how the British were complicit in the expulsion of Jews from countries like Iraq?
http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/2006/09/last-jews-in-baghdad-by-nissim-rejwan.html

The largest Jewish community in the Middle East was located in Mesopotamia. It was Britain's ambition to create a Middle East that was divided along ethno-religious lines, when they encountered Jews in Baghdad, they were surprised, to say the least. These Jews spoke Arabic, bore Arab names and considered themselves to be Arabs of Jewish faith.
http://www.mepc.org/journal/9012_corrigan.asp
 
nino_savatte said:
Have you read the history of Iraq or, better still, are you aware of how the British were complicit in the expulsion of Jews from countries like Iraq?
http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/2006/09/last-jews-in-baghdad-by-nissim-rejwan.html

The largest Jewish community in the Middle East was located in Mesopotamia. It was Britain's ambition to create a Middle East that was divided along ethno-religious lines, when they encountered Jews in Baghdad, they were surprised, to say the least. These Jews spoke Arabic, bore Arab names and considered themselves to be Arabs of Jewish faith.
http://www.mepc.org/journal/9012_corrigan.asp
Click to expand...
yes .. i accept this
 
durruti02 said:
there were explusions from morocco egypt tunisia algeria etc etc etc .. hundreds of jews were killed in riots/pograms thruout the 1940's and particualrly after the 1948 war .. i have no dispute that outside forces played a part ..
Click to expand...

You weren't being specific but those expulsions were a reaction to the creation of the state of Israel. I'm not saying it's right but it helps to put these things into perspective.

You've avoided my point about British complicity in the expulsion of Jews from the former mandated territories.
 
Garfield: If you had any sense of curiosity about me you would find that on other boards, all of which I utlise under my true name, I make it a point to call for complete freedom of speech, even smutty mouth children, be it as it may .

Prior to asking others if they have been to Israel you might just wsh to visit it yourself. Does a tonne for character.Ethnic Cleansing? When? 53? Grow up. How many Jews live in Gaza today? Can they IF they choose? Talk of cleansing, another childish joke.

Nino: I am who I am, the name I was given at birth. If you had an iota of iniative you would verify that as several others apparently have. That you call names and hide behind fake ones says more than you think but there I go, feeding into the whole childish dynamic. Par for the course but I will do my best to change it.
 
Durruti: First, the 2 State Solution was iniated not by the Un but by its predecessor and not in 48 but in 1919. At the time there was NO debate on anything having to do with the Arabs save whether or not we should bite at the proposed aliance being floated for both our peoples.

By 48 we had endured a 16 year spate of Arab violence, unreciprocated, (1920 to 1936) that had led Revisionist Zionist by 48 to clamor for a much more stronger response to the porposed and real threats to our existence.

750,000 Arabs did not flee, even most Arab moderates agree that it is more to the tune of 450,000, still an astounding number....except that most fled without a single Zionist whisper. Witness today's 2.2 million Israeli-Arab CITIZENS.

The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands? Arab nations admit to close to 900,00 with 3 billion US in property so maybe that will provide a counter issue.

As for Nino's inane suggestion that any Jewish organisation could have ever got it together enough to force nearly a million (actually much more) Jews to flee is ludicicrous but then...

As or discrimination, Israeli-Arabs have the right to emigrate and yet rarely does it happen, perhaps it has a bit to do with their enjoying the highest standard of living in the entire Middle-East?
 
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