Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

[Spion]

In Israel, people are just not getting the full news about Gaza. This has long been the case - the last thing the Israeli government want are reports of the full extent of what is happening shown on mainstream news channels.

Many don't even know the reason they might be being targeted by rockets . . . The mayor of Ashkelon in this article in the G today is bewildered by the attacks on the town, FFS. And yet they live in a place from where thousands of Palestinians were forcibly ejected in 1948

 

[tangentlama]

Najd - yes, am well aware of it's destruction by IDF - believe it was completely destroyed. Can well believe that the Mayor is not aware (see Nakba thread).

 

[rachamim18]

I suggest anyone interested in the dynamic to at least study a language before making grand pronouncements of villification. Shoah can refer to the Holocaust WHEN CAPITALISED. When used as it was by Dep. Min. of Defence it is a word akin to the Arabic "nachbah/nakbah."


The BBC should be any fair minded person's last source of news on the region anyway but that is a different story.

 

[rachamim18]

Any Arabs that left Ashkelon in 48 left a region they were OCCUPYING. Study your history please.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Any Arabs that left Ashkelon in 48 left a region they were OCCUPYING. Study your history please.

you cannot occupy what is yours int he first place ... anyway when are you going to answer granny?

don't come back again til you do captain full of shit...

 

[Spion]

Najd - yes, am well aware of it's destruction by IDF - believe it was completely destroyed. Can well believe that the Mayor is not aware (see Nakba thread).

Not Najd - Al-Majdal, which had 11,000 Arab residents until 1948. About 3,000 were left by the time the Haganah took it over and concentrated them in a barbed wire-encircled ghetto until 1950 when they were forcibly ejected to Gaza.

I still think the mayor is lying or exceedingly dim.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I still think the mayor is lying or exceedingly dim.

not lying so much as supporting the Israeli accepted version of history one day like holocaust denial twats this will be a crime also...

 

[frogwoman]

he's not deliberately lying as such its just most people there believe it ...

 

[soloqi]

According to the BBC Israel is defending itsself against terrorists.
Mossad have the means and experience to kill a number of individuals, but they dont.

The IDF prefere to carry out collective punishment against refugees, while calling it defending its self against terrorists.

Let them (IFD) kill more civillians then terrorists, let the media cover the truth and give bias reports supporting Israels terrorists tacicts.

If people are pushed so far they have a right to exersise sefl determantion. And the more western government kill civillians by mistake or through collateral damage more and more people will step foward and fight this brutality.

 

[nino_savatte]

It's an Orwellian reordering of language that both Israel and the US engage in. Describing offensive actions as "defensive" is pretty typical, though how much longer will people be prepared to believe these lies? Surely there must be some ordinary Israeli folk on the ground who are beginning to ask serious questions of their government's desire for collective punishment and the concomitant retaliation that comes with it.

 

[tangentlama]

I suggest anyone interested in the dynamic to at least study a language before making grand pronouncements of villification. Shoah can refer to the Holocaust WHEN CAPITALISED. When used as it was by Dep. Min. of Defence it is a word akin to the Arabic "nachbah/nakbah."


The BBC should be any fair minded person's last source of news on the region anyway but that is a different story.

Can't see anyone being happy with a reference to Al-Naqba either, Rach. I always translate both shoah and naqba as 'catastrophe', rather than 'disaster'. To me, disaster is a nature/environment, and catastrophe is a man-made, but these are semantics. At least it provoked debates, so something good has come out of this.

Even Amira Hass translated shoah as 'disaster' - HaShoah would of course refer to 'The Catastrophe', i.e. Hitler's man-made Final Solution that exploited existing millenia-old Christian antisemitism, as well as building upon Kossinna's racist 'German cultural supremacy' theories.

None of this semantic posturing removes the fact that when someone says 'shoah', most Jews think of HaShoah.

 

[tangentlama]

Not Najd - Al-Majdal.

Mistakenly I thought you were talking about Sderot area.

I still think the mayor is lying or exceedingly dim.

Why do you think that? In that Nakba remembered thread it is clear that very few know the history of the land-use prior to their taking up residence there.

People who want peace need to work with the people of Israel NOW, irrespective of what some military asshole did 60 years ago in their name. It is best not to resort to imagining a collective responsiblity that is abhorred when applied to Palestinians. To do so is alienating and insulting. People often only know what they've been told, and only sometimes do people take the time to actually find out the previous history. How many people can be bothered to find out who lived in their house or their town 50 or 60 years ago? Not many, I'm telling you.

 

[tangentlama]

Any Arabs that left Ashkelon in 48 left a region they were OCCUPYING. Study your history please.

I studied my history, and I prefer to call them arabic-speakers. It's not occupation if your family lived there for even one generation, three generation, or 10 generation. It's really not 'occupying', it's 'living' and 'working' or eking out a living.

Why should we think in military terms about villagers who used to dwell there before conflict drove them out?. I think it's a propagandic term that is not useful, or beneficial to use.

 

[tangentlama]

he's not deliberately lying as such its just most people there believe it ...

That's my viewpoint also.

 

[Spion]

This is just another example of your unwillingness to work with the people of Israel NOW

Is it really? So, what should I be doing with 'the people of Israel'?

 

[tangentlama]

Selective editing.

Maybe email the Mayor, with accurate historical unbiased account. Maybe avoid insulting him in public before you ascertain whether he knows or doesn't know what you claim he's either lying about or doesn't know.

It shouldn't be a surprise to you if you find out that he doesn't know - I remember reading the Nakba thread and there seem to be many people who don't know what happened 60 years ago. I know that you know (from reading that thread) that some people were told untruths by the authorities (myths) about the once-Arab-owned houses they now occupy, and from that thread, I know that you know that some individuals have taken up discourse, independently of any outside influence, and sought knowledge about what went on 60 years ago.

 

[danny la rouge]

According to the BBC Israel is defending itsself against terrorists.

Also puzzling is the way the BBC constantly refers to the "Occupied Territories", as if it is some passive fact; it 'just happened'. There's no understanding of agency, that there is an Occupying force and an occupied people.

 

[mauvais]

I couldn't stomach the rest of the 10 o'Clock News tonight. On the day Gazan conditions are said to be at a forty year low, was there a single mention? There was certainly plenty about eight Israelis being shot dead, what reprisals this will entail, and how "half" of the Palestinians were celebrating.

 

[DexterTCN]

Immaculate timing for those of a disposition.

 

[tangentlama]

Also puzzling is the way the BBC constantly refers to the "Occupied Territories", as if it is some passive fact; it 'just happened'. There's no understanding of agency, that there is an Occupying force and an occupied people.

It doesn't refer to 'disputed territories', so it's clear to me that Occupied Territories is the term most used by those who believe Israel is occupying the land originally demarcated as the Palestinian State.

 

[tangentlama]

I couldn't stomach the rest of the 10 o'Clock News tonight. On the day Gazan conditions are said to be at a forty year low, was there a single mention? There was certainly plenty about eight Israelis being shot dead, what reprisals this will entail, and how "half" of the Palestinians were celebrating.

How can "half" of the Palestinians be celebrating two lone gunmen murdering a bunch of WB hardalim settler's schoolkids in a Jerusalem seminary? They know how the cycle of violence goes. This opens up the tit-for-tat for WB settlers to engage in yet more vigilante style attacks on WB Palestinians. I don't believe that "half" the Palestinians can be 'celebrating' either the death of these youths, or the knowledge that there will be a vengeance attack against their own youths in the future.

 

[danny la rouge]

those who believe Israel is occupying the land

Mm hmm.

 

[mauvais]

Well, that's what they said, albeit qualified with some arse like 'a lot of people here will feel that'. Useless shites.

 

[tangentlama]

Mm hmm.

We should be worried if the BBC were using the term 'disputed' instead of Occupied. If they begin using the former, then be worried - be very worried indeed.

 

[tangentlama]

Well, that's what they said, albeit qualified with some arse like 'a lot of people here will feel that'. Useless shites.

SO it was conjecture - without any proof whatsoever???!!!
Disgusting.

 

[danny la rouge]

We should be worried if the BBC were using the term 'disputed' instead of Occupied. If they begin using the former, then be worried - be very worried indeed.

It is context-less. A survey by the Glasgow Media Group found most* consumers of the BBC News thought the territories were occupied by the Palestinians.

(*It was a couple of years ago, and I forget the exact %age).

 

[DexterTCN]

Their website disagrees. link

 

[danny la rouge]

Not everything is online.

 

[tangentlama]

Then we have the added concern that Hamas praises the attack as an heroic deed - of walking into a school and murdering 8 WB settler youths.

Not so. Is it heroic to slay 8 youths, and by default an unknown amount of your own as WB Hardalim might retaliate in kind, regardless of what the IDF or the Israeli government decide to do? No. It is the act someone who hasn't figured out the cycle of violence and escalation, someone who doesn't understand that there was widespread outcry at what IDF were doing in Gaza over the last week. And incredibly crazy too to kill settler youths like this. These settlers even threaten the Israeli government/IDF with civil war whenever evacuation looms on the agenda.

It was a lunatic act, and will sway the wider public to the Israeli side, just as the wider public were in shock over the IDF actions in Gaza. It is better if the public are sympathetic to both sides for their losses and don't take sides.

 

[tangentlama]

It is context-less. A survey by the Glasgow Media Group found most* consumers of the BBC News thought the territories were occupied by the Palestinians.

(*It was a couple of years ago, and I forget the exact %age).

Well certainly it's without doubt that it's usage means that Israel occupies those territories by military force. It's not thought widely that it's the Palestinians who occupy those territories.