Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'
- Thread starter wreckhead
- Start date
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
I bow to your superior knowledge.
Fails to explain the sudden dearth of bombers though.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
So, the pictures on last night's news, which showed a rocket having gone through a reinforced concrete roof, are a myth.
How extraordinary.
you are correct in your assertion that they are like mortars, the rocket went through the roof before exploding, the small entrance hole with minimal spalling is indicitive of both height and weight of the projectile.
Having seen the effects first hand with military ordinance, the weapons are not as unsophisticated as you assert.
This link:
http://www.weaponsurvey.com/missilesrockets.htm
The link details the weaponry available to the Palestinians. A weapon with a 35 mile mile range and 5kg warhead is hardly unsophisticated.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
so how come only one person has died on the israeli side? surely it's not a proportionate response?
you havent answered my question - how come dictators like milosevic and saddam, who did the same things, and sometimes said they were "defending the country" from terrorists, are war criminals and deserve punishment and yet the israeli government is just defending israel with its actions? how do you explain one person doing something in a country being OK and then in another country its not ok? how is this right?
have you seen how they (palestinians) live? because of this siege thing, they havent got any electricity, or food, or anything - that's why they are having to break into egypt to get supplies!! my mum went there in the 70s and she was disgusted about how they were treated, and the way they lived, in that tiny little area!
oh, and like it or not, there ARE some israelis and their supporters that would like to exterminate all of them and unfortunately a lot of these cunts have influence in government!! Not all of them or even most but there are quite a lot ... it's not nice but it's the truth but there are some people who believe this, and i've actually spoken to a couple of them!
you cant seriously say that this is right just because its Israel doing it! someones gotta do something! i mean people are dying for no reason at all for fucks sake - i sometimes think that Israel could attack gaza with a nuke and some people would cheer it on, saying that it was the right thing to do to stop terrorism!
you havent answered my question - how come dictators like milosevic and saddam, who did the same things, and sometimes said they were "defending the country" from terrorists, are war criminals and deserve punishment and yet the israeli government is just defending israel with its actions? how do you explain one person doing something in a country being OK and then in another country its not ok? how is this right?
have you seen how they (palestinians) live? because of this siege thing, they havent got any electricity, or food, or anything - that's why they are having to break into egypt to get supplies!! my mum went there in the 70s and she was disgusted about how they were treated, and the way they lived, in that tiny little area!
oh, and like it or not, there ARE some israelis and their supporters that would like to exterminate all of them and unfortunately a lot of these cunts have influence in government!! Not all of them or even most but there are quite a lot ... it's not nice but it's the truth but there are some people who believe this, and i've actually spoken to a couple of them!
you cant seriously say that this is right just because its Israel doing it! someones gotta do something! i mean people are dying for no reason at all for fucks sake - i sometimes think that Israel could attack gaza with a nuke and some people would cheer it on, saying that it was the right thing to do to stop terrorism!
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Protests across Israel-Palestine
There's been a small protest outside the IDF Defense Ministry by the Hadash party today, calling for the cessation of IDF operations in the Gaza Strip. It was attended by a few dozen people - 2 arrests were made. There's been a few more sites of protest at Beit Ummar, Um Salamuna, and El Khader.
Israelis and Palestinians want the conflict to end
The important thing - the most important thing to remember here is that 64% of Israelis want their govt to negotiate with the Hamas and broker a ceasefire as a foundation for peacetalks. Every Israeli I've spoken to today very depressed - they are tired of the conflict and want a normal life. They know the Palestinians are tired and depressed and suffering for want of a normal life.
3 years of Demonstrations in Bi'lin Village
The Bi'lin demo against the wall cutting them off from their land reached is third year last weekend - three long years of protest against the land-grabs under the pretext of security when the reality is it's being used to build settlement blocs - all illegal under International Law, and one of the biggest parts of the problem.
There's been a small protest outside the IDF Defense Ministry by the Hadash party today, calling for the cessation of IDF operations in the Gaza Strip. It was attended by a few dozen people - 2 arrests were made. There's been a few more sites of protest at Beit Ummar, Um Salamuna, and El Khader.
Israelis and Palestinians want the conflict to end
The important thing - the most important thing to remember here is that 64% of Israelis want their govt to negotiate with the Hamas and broker a ceasefire as a foundation for peacetalks. Every Israeli I've spoken to today very depressed - they are tired of the conflict and want a normal life. They know the Palestinians are tired and depressed and suffering for want of a normal life.
3 years of Demonstrations in Bi'lin Village
The Bi'lin demo against the wall cutting them off from their land reached is third year last weekend - three long years of protest against the land-grabs under the pretext of security when the reality is it's being used to build settlement blocs - all illegal under International Law, and one of the biggest parts of the problem.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
RhymnRzn
anti-doter
I doubt the outwardly-apparent Jews would risk themselves with their carnal warfare if they understood the quite-possibility that the Morning Star sword (now of the spoken word), once known to originate among the Philistines (as a symbol), destined to be wielded again by King David (in fact), could again suddenly spring up there.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
It's run by editor Stan Goodenough, a Christian Zionist and South African national; it's a very small outfit with very small views writing for a US Christian Zionist audience. It doesn't reflect the views of Israeli majority in any way. You can see Goodenough and his spin on the conflict here:
frogwoman - about Stan Goodenough - this is a man who does not think that Allah is the same god as the Jews follow. He is anti-Muslim, he is focused in the most upon land, as listening to the video will reveal, (if you can stomach watching it).
Max Blumenthal (http://maxblumenthal.com), writes:
If you want to watch the Christian Right, and understand their agenda for Israel, which is frankly not in the best interests of Israelis or Palestinians, then you can do no better than reading either Max Blumenthal's work or reading the website of the Jews On First group.
ps. If I hear one more person pronounce Israel as Isreal, I think I'm going to scream.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
"Jew haters"? Israelis and Jews are not one and the same.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i wasn't goign to rise to the laughable comment but hur hur.....
Spion
I hear ya
Israel is the one that has ethnically cleansed Palestinians and driven them into the Gaza Ghetto and cut of their power, food, electricity. To equate the violence of the Gazans with that of Israel is ludicrous - like suggesting the violence of a rebelling slave is the same as that of the master towards the slave.Sasaferrato said:
Only addressing the root cause - the dispossesion of the Palestinians - will solve this. And only mass protest that makes ordinary Israelis and IDF-ers realise they cannot deny these people justice forever will work, IMO
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
It is true that some Israelis want the Palestinians either transferred from 'the land' else exterminated.
They are not the majority. However, they are a powerful minority, and have the support of extremely large group of right-wing US Christian Zionists (some 40 million estimated) - led by US 'religious ministers' and supported by some US politicians (such as Huckabee). This Judaic-Christic alliance is supported financially by oligarchs in both USA and Russia, and the funds not only help to arm settler groups, they also contribute to a variety of social programs within Israel itself (as 'charitable' NGOs). The dominant ideology behind this is a Christian Zionist Eschatology (End Times/Rapture), however, since the mid 1970s, the political active messianist settler movement (Gush Emunim, Kahanists etc), has actively worked against, and impedes movements towards Peace, as well as indoctrinating a whole new generation of illegal settlers in the occupied territories who reject democracy and use violence and force to achieve their aims.
These hard core extremists have a set of vigilantes who act freely in West Bank, attacking Arabs - murdering Arabs - making life dangerous and difficult for the Arabs remaining there. They also are capable of murdering any Israeli Jew who is seen as a traitor (Rabin). They are especially active in Kiryat Arba and Chevron (Hebron) and with ideologues espousing a racial supremacism which turns the stomach of the majority of Israelis, they're not above murder, and they'd destroy the Dome of the Rock given the chance - they are however, a minority, but a very dangerous one since they not only oppose the idea of a democratic state for all it's citizens, but also demand a Jewish-only state on all of the land and the extermination or transfer of every single last non-Jew, be they Christian or Muslim.
This goes against even what the original founders of Israel had in mind - they eschew rights for women, oppose civil law and are armed to the teeth and capable about bringing a civil war - it is these religious supremacist hardliners that the Christian Zionists of America largely fund. The Yesha Council who represent the Hardalim settler movement in the West Bank threaten civil war frequently and have always found sympathetic support from the Likud.
Important to remember is that all religions have experienced their own religious extremists operating in this tiny strip of land - Jew, Christian and Muslim - in some way the religious nationalists in West Bank are settled there illegally, supported by Christian Zionists and a minority of mainly diaspora Jews, and all the while the US does nothing to cut off the funding and arms that reaches them. They are a ticking time bomb.
I must stress, the hardalim - ultra-orthodox nationalist religious right-wing - are not to be thought of as the having the same religious outlook and ideology of Britain's ultra-Orthodox Jewish Citizens.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
it would be fairer in fact to compare them to the KKK or neo nazi groups livign the 'end of days' woodsman lifestyle.
.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
forggers why are you posting up their nonsense hate it doesn't serve a purpsoe as afar as i can see other than giving the oxygen of publciity to their lunatic views...
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Why are you giving these people airspace when there are hundreds of sane, compassionates commentaries?
I don't understand why you are taking this route.
What is required is a focus on the majority - majority Israelis (64%) who want a return to the ceasefire that saw a year of stability and lowered stress and hope for peaceful resolution. It is the same for majority Palestinians who also want lasting ceasefire and a chance for Gazans to rebuild their shattered lives.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
yeah that's true sorry i was just really shocked to see it and that people would think such stuff ... of course the majority of israelis want peace!
Have you no comment on the US Christian Right-wing who are major donators to the nationalist religious West Bank Settler movement?? Or maybe on the settler movement itself (who are armed to the teeth and threaten civil war).
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i can't see how any sane person other than one with racist agendas who does the most xusroy search on google wouldn't know how mental a right wing fundamentalist was regardless of their ascribed relegion...
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
yeah of course! they're nutters...absolute nutters ...
Spion
I hear ya
I've never been convinced they want peace AND justice for the Palestinians tho. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwiseof course the majority of israelis want peace!
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
indeed lol ... anyone can be like that, it is just depressing, because i know people who say similar things and are a bit clueless about whats going on ... im sorry, i didn't mean to offend anyone ...
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Those last two commentaries posted by frogwoman were from US originating Christian Zionists. I recognise the stance well.
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