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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

teqniq said:
Archived editorial from Haaretz on the ICC warrants:

Starvation, Murder, Persecution: ICC Warrants Are an Unprecedented Moral Nadir for Israel

Interestingly Gramsci in the piece wrt to Israel having the facility to pursue it's own internal investigation into war crimes and crimes against humanity as is being suggested by UKLI
they regard this as a non-option:

View attachment 452333
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I am wondering if Israel state and it's general public aren't acting in rational way.

After Hamas attack they had a lot of international support and condemnation of Hamas.

One year on and they are losing international support except from US and countries like mine.

South Africa case is extremely important symbolically.

I can see why activists pursuing the legal arguments plus making Israel an international pariah with world public opinion are correct.

Here is quote from article,

Unfortunately, both the government and public opinion, with the support of most of the media, are refusing to listen. Instead, they are all hoping that Trump will enable Israel to continue, if not intensify, the actions that the International Criminal Court defines as crimes against humanity.
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So forget about trying to get Israeli public onside. That's pointless.

Go for using international law strategically and isolate Israel as a pariah state. In world public opinion. Even if our western leaders won't.

Question is whether this will happen quick enough to save Palestinians being basically wiped off the map of Palestine
 
Western states could treat Israel like Putin's Russia is being treated.

Just to make it clear I'm not saying Israel should be picked on differently from other states occupying other people's land.
 
Meanwhile there are two ceasefire deals in the offing. Very predictably it is said that Netanyahu is stalling for time on the Gaza one:

Arab mediators: Netanyahu stalling, wrongly thinks Trump will deliver better Gaza deal

but there is also a potential ceasefire deal with Hezbollah:

www.timesofisrael.com

Netanyahu meeting on Lebanon ceasefire as Israel said poised to greenlight deal

Consultation said focus on how to sell agreement to Israeli public; US envoy reportedly warned that if there is no truce now, Israel and Hezbollah will have to wait for Trump
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com
 
Israel sanctions Haaretz due to articles that ‘hurt’ Israeli state

Israel has approved a resolution to cut ties with the Israeli news outlet Haaretz and ban government funding bodies from communicating or placing advertisements with the newspaper.

The government said its decision was due to “many articles that have hurt the legitimacy of the state of Israel and its right to self-defence, and particularly the remarks made in London by Haaretz publisher Amos Schocken that support terrorism and call for imposing sanctions on the government,” Haaretz reported on Sunday.
Click to expand...
 
Watched this



Is start of series of lectures hosted by SOAS titled Imperialism , Colonialism and Human Rights

The starting point for the lecture series is the article I've linked. Which I've read. Its not to long. By Nimar Sultani

Francesca Albanese gave a barn storming speech. Her visit to UK was met with demos outside where ever she spoke. So she was clearly giving her all on this.

Its not to long and the intro speakers are good. One said both David Lammy and Francesca are ex SOAS students. Lammy recent comments on what genocide show that unfortunately in his case education at SOAS didn't work. One of the more amusing asides in the video. He really isn't that bright imo. Typical Labour party as I know them. Good at politicking but not very bright.

Francesca was putting argument that Palestinian struggle is linked to struggles of indigenous people world wide.

She did give long section about what's happening in Gaza now

TBF I've had to stop watching some of everyday news and instead read history and academic article like this. Its to much for my head to watch more dead bodies.

The intro speakers and her plus the demos outside are making an atmosphere , understandably imo , of barely hidden mutual loathing. Her speech reflected this. I can understand this. And can feel the same myself.

The academic text goes into the plus and minuses of the international law paradigm to get a just solution for Palestinians.

Makes convincing argument if international law cant work for Palestinians its failed.

Says among other things ( and Id recommend it as a read 45 pages)

International law does not fully take aboard Zionism as a colonial project.

That separating out Palestinians inside Israel/ in West Bank and Gaza and as refugees outside the Mandate area means that the totality of the oppression of Palestinians gets lost.

There is a long discussion in his piece about NGOs. HRW and Amnesty International. For long time they avoided the Palestinian issue. More recent reports by them hold delicate balancing act between saying Israel is now Apartheid state and not saying the origins of this are in Zionism. Trying to be objective and not take political sides. He says in end this doesn't work.

He's quite critical of NGOs like HRW. I've more sympathy for them.

So what Nimar is saying, as a previous generation of Palestinians said ( he mentions Sayegh) is that the underlying issue is Zionism as a colonial racist project. This is not fully expressed in how international law works. Which is a deliberate systemic aspect of International law. Not an unfortunate by product of it.

At one point he says UN agreed that Zionism was a form of racism. This was dropped in order that the Oslo peace process gets started.

International law itself is political and its an area of contestation. There isn't a pure law. Its possible to use it. Without seeing law as area where political power is contested and exercised its easy to fall into the traps that some NGOs do. Which inadvertantly shore up this unjust state of affairs

I think the Nimar article on international law is very good
 

Attachments

  • Sultany Palestine Litmus Test final.pdf
    469.9 KB · Views: 0
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‎Israeli Confession that Quarter of Palestinian Detainees have been infected with Scabies‎
---------------
Haaretz:‎

‎The Israel Prison Service has acknowledged that about a quarter of Palestinian prisoners have contracted scabies in recent months.‎

‎The IPS's confession came in response to a petition filed by human rights organizations.‎

‎The Supreme Court considers a petition by human rights groups that the IPS has not taken the necessary measures to prevent the spread of the disease.‎
---------------
 
Yeah, by targeting war criminals they're making a mockery of the whole idea of targeting war criminals.

I'm not going to actually read any of this shite but do any of these articles explain why Netanyahu's actions aren't crimes against humanity? Or do they just skirt round that whole issue?
 
little_legs said:
‎Israeli Confession that Quarter of Palestinian Detainees have been infected with Scabies‎
---------------
Haaretz:‎

‎The Israel Prison Service has acknowledged that about a quarter of Palestinian prisoners have contracted scabies in recent months.‎

‎The IPS's confession came in response to a petition filed by human rights organizations.‎

‎The Supreme Court considers a petition by human rights groups that the IPS has not taken the necessary measures to prevent the spread of the disease.‎
---------------
Click to expand...

Scabies is an absolute bastard to treat, and it's basically impossible to do so in crowded or unsanitary conditions. People will just reinfect each other unless everyone is treated.

Assuming anyone is making any effort to treat these people of course.
 
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SpookyFrank said:
Yeah, by targeting war criminals they're making a mockery of the whole idea of targeting war criminals.

I'm not going to actually read any of this shite but do any of these articles explain why Netanyahu's actions aren't crimes against humanity? Or do they just skirt round that whole issue?
Click to expand...
I haven't actually looked. I just saw a screenshot on Twitter and copied it here. They've pretty much nailed their colours to the mast though with that opening statement imo.
 
The International Criminal Court is not the venue to hold Israel to account

Editorial Board
5–6 minutes

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has used chemical weapons and waged a bloody campaign of ethnic cleansing in his brutal suppression of an uprising that has killed half a million people, many of them civilians. In Myanmar, military dictator Gen. Min Aung Hlaing and his army have been responsible for bombing civilian villages in its war against the long-persecuted Rohingya minority. And in Sudan, a new potential genocide threatens the Darfur region’s Black Masalit people at the hands of Gen. Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo, who is known as Hemedti, and his Rapid Support Forces.

So who does the International Criminal Court wish to arrest for war crimes? Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his former defense chief Yoav Gallant.

Israel is not a member of the ICC, and the warrants will have limited practical effect, except possibly preventing Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Gallant from traveling to countries which have pledged to enforce it. We say possibly because countries in the past have promised to uphold ICC arrest orders only to ignore them when convenient. Several European countries and Canada have suggested they would uphold the latest arrest orders; others have balked.

But the arrest orders undermine the ICC’s credibility and give credence to accusations of hypocrisy and selective prosecution. The ICC is putting the elected leaders of a democratic country with its own independent judiciary in the same category as dictators and authoritarians who kill with impunity. Israel went to war in response to the Hamas attack of Oct. 7, 2023, which left 1,200 Israelis dead and another 250 taken hostage, around 100 of whom still remain captive. The ICC’s arrest warrant for one of the authors of that massacre, Hamas leader Mohammed Deif, who was probably killed in an Israeli airstrike months ago, looks more like false equivalence than genuine balance.

To be sure, far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed and maimed in Israel’s 13-month-long war against Hamas: more than 44,000 have died, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between civilians and combatants. It says more than half of the fatalities have been women and children. The Israeli military says it has killed 17,000 militants; though its basis for that is unclear, even if accurate, it implies more than 60 percent killed have been noncombatants. Hamas is to blame for sheltering among civilians and hiding their weapons and command centers in tunnels beneath populated areas. But Israel, as a democratic country that is committed to human rights, must take responsibility for the civilian casualty toll.

Israel also has a responsibility to allow humanitarian aid to reach the millions of Palestinians displaced and suffering from an acute food shortage bordering on famine. On this, the Israeli government has fallen short. The State Department, in declining to impose sanctions on Israel for blocking aid deliveries, said it saw some recent improvements, such as a successful polio vaccination campaign in Gaza, another border crossing reopened, and an increase in the number of aid trucks allowed in over past month. But a Post analysis found that Israel has largely failed to comply with the U.S. government’s three main demands — a surge of humanitarian aid, not a trickle; access to Gaza for commercial trucks; and an end to Israeli’s siege of populated northern Gaza. To be sure, aid could have flowed in more quickly if Hamas had accepted a cease-fire deal to free the remaining hostages, but Hamas instead insisted on a withdrawal of all Israeli troops from Gaza and a permanent end to hostilities.

Israel needs to be held accountable for its military conduct in Gaza. After the conflict’s end — which is long overdue — there will no doubt be Israeli judicial, parliamentary and military commissions of inquiry. Israeli’s vibrant, independent media will do its own investigations. Some Israeli reserve soldiers have already been arrested over accusations of abuse against Palestinian detainees. More investigations will follow. The ICC is supposed to become involved when countries have no means or mechanisms to investigate themselves. That is not the case in Israel.

The United States has long had an ambivalent relationship with the ICC. It refuses to be a party to the court for fear of politically motivated prosecutions against U.S. service members overseas. But at times it has encouraged the ICC and lent support, as in the case of war crimes against Russian President Vladimir Putin for his invasion of Ukraine.

President-elect Donald Trump, in his first term, took a hostile stance toward the ICC. Mr. Trump imposed travel sanctions against ICC prosecutors and staff, which President Joe Biden lifted. The ill-considered arrest warrants against Israel only give Mr. Trump a new reason to halt American cooperation with the court, at a time when it’s needed for Russia, Sudan, Myanmar and conflicts elsewhere that atrocities are being committed with impunity and the victims have no other recourse.
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AG decides not to open criminal probes into senior officials for incitement against Gazans

Attorney General Gali Baharav-Miara decides not to open criminal investigations into whether comments by senior Israeli officials in the wake of the October 7 Hamas massacres and atrocities could be considered incitement to violence or even genocide against Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

The announcement of the attorney general’s decision is made in her office’s response to a High Court petition filed by the Israel Democracy Guard organization in August, which requested that her office open criminal investigations into some of the highly inflammatory comments made by cabinet ministers and MKs, ostensibly endorsing indiscriminate attacks on Gaza.

Among the comments highlighted by the petition are Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu’s remark in November 2023 that the war in Gaza could be ended by dropping an atomic bomb on the territory, and Likud MK Galit Distel-Atbaryan’s call to “wipe Gaza off the face of the earth.”

On January 9, three days before the first hearing for South Africa’s suit in the International Court of Justice accusing Israel of genocide, the Attorney General’s Office said that law enforcement agencies had opened “examinations” into several of the problematic comments made by Israeli officials.

According to the Attorney General’s Office, however, a decision not to open criminal investigations was made on November 18.

One of the key provisional measures issued by the ICJ in its orders to Israel on January 26 was to “take all measures within its power to prevent and punish the direct and public incitement to commit genocide” against the Palestinians.
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SpookyFrank said:
Yeah, by targeting war criminals they're making a mockery of the whole idea of targeting war criminals.

I'm not going to actually read any of this shite but do any of these articles explain why Netanyahu's actions aren't crimes against humanity? Or do they just skirt round that whole issue?
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I don't think they give a shit. They'll only presecute criminals they don't like. If it's one that's a a so-called ally that's all fine and dandy.

Utter twats to put it mildly.
 
Proper demented. there is nothing like an actual full-on extremist:

@ytirawi

Deputy Brigade Commander of Israel’s 828 Infantry brigade, Lt. Col Yoel Rechel who have been operating months in Gaza“Gaza’s liberation day ..We’ve waited here, in Gush Katif.. Until we returned.. to Gush Katif.. We’ve returned to OUR Gaza..soon we’ll get to Damascus & Beirut”

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1732564399523.mp4
 
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