Interview with the Israeli / American scholar of genocide Omer Bartov
Well worth a listen. Crams a lot In one hour.
Some bits
He did grow up in Israel and does go back their to visit.
He talked at change from without and within. Says Biden could have stopped this. USA supplies the arms and diplomatic cover.
From within. He mentions this book on dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians. The book is discussion of the Nakba and the Holocaust.
Found it
here
In this groundbreaking book, leading Arab and Jewish intellectuals examine how and why the Holocaust and the Nakba are interlinked without blurring fundamental differences between them. While these two foundational tragedies are often discussed separately and in abstraction from the constitutive historical global contexts of nationalism and colonialism, The Holocaust and the Nakba explores the historical, political, and cultural intersections between them. The majority of the contributors argue that these intersections are embedded in cultural imaginations, colonial and asymmetrical power relations, realities, and structures. Focusing on them paves the way for a new political, historical, and moral grammar that enables a joint Arab-Jewish dwelling and supports historical reconciliation in Israel/Palestine.
Going on my reading list.
I think what he is talking about is that both Palestinian and Israeli Jews can comprehend and meet each other over their shared traumas. The Holocaust and the Nakba
Points out that many of the people fighting ( about a third) in 48 were Holocaust survivors. No longer wanted in Europe. End up living in homes taken from Palestinians.
As utopian as it might seem at this moment change from within can happen if a dialogue like this is entered into.
He says he was at high school when 67 occupation started. Back then as Israeli Jews one could demonstrate as he did against a long term occupation.
He says those who opposed the occupation in early days were right the occupation has corrupted Israeli society.
It dehumanises the Palestinians and does the similar harm for the occupier.
The occupation became normalised in Israeli society. Netanyahu and others gave illusion that the occupation could be managed. Israelis could get on with their lives and not think about it
The shock to Israeli society on the 7th destroyed this normalisation. Massive shock to Israeli society.
He's found his left leaning friends in Israel don't really want to know what is going on in Gaza.
On the IHRA definition plus examples. He says the definition is fine its the examples that are the problem. 7 out of 11 are about Israel. And concerns now that with Trump this definition plus examples could be accepted
He's now saying that what is happening in Gaza is arguably genocide Genocide isn't about numbers. Its about targeting as a group.
There is a lot more he gets into.. The relationship between his work on Nazi Germany and what Israel is doing now.
One instance he brought up. When he first went to Germany to study Holocaust a lot of Germans said things like it was the SS etc not normal Germans. His research found yes it was normal Germans. The regular German army was involved in war crimes.
Like regular IDF soldiers posting up what they are doing in Gaza as though its ok.
Definitely imo a must watch. Sheds light on this from a (left) Israeli perspective as well as being a historian whose studied how Genocides take place.
www.dropsitenews.com
www.independent.co.uk
www.middleeasteye.net
www.aljazeera.com
