Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[tim]

.

Indeed. But I don't recall UK government and opposition leaders, nor the mass media, being broadly supportive of, and enabling, the crimes of governments in Syria, Myanmar, Sudan or Russia.

Eta: Kevbad beat me to it.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but our government is not actually colluding with the governments of Syria, Myanmar, Sudan or Russia. This has some bearing on the issue and partly why people get so incensed about it all.

Fairly indifferent to crimes in Syria, Sudan Myamar and to Russian crimes in Chechnya. However the British Government is extremely happy to supply the planes and weapons to enable the mass murder of Yemeni civilians by the Saudis and the Emiratis

 

[Serge Forward]

.



Fairly indifferent to crimes in Syria, Sudan Myamar and to Russian crimes in Chechnya. However the British Government is extremely happy to supply the planes and weapons to enable the mass murder of Yemenj civilians by the Saudis and the Emiratis

Yes, that's true. I concur with your whatabout. Now, back to Israel exterminating Palestinians in their tens of thousands.

 

[Gramsci]

There are threads about Russia? There is whole subsection on Russia criminal invasion of Ukraine

On those threads are there frequent complaints but what about Israel?

 

[Gramsci]

Considering the news that's coming out about what's happening in North Gaza I'm starting to find the whataboutery in last few pages a tad tiresome to say the least.

 

[tim]

To people on this thread maybe. To the Israeli, US, German, British, etc governments, like fuck they do.

No mention at all of arms sales by those states in the post above, so isn't there something of the "whatabout" in your responses to my response?

 

[Gramsci]

‘Horrific scenes’: Dozens killed in Gaza as Israel’s assault intensifies

Rescuers scour the debris in Beit Lahiya town after repeated Israeli air strikes destroy homes of trapped Palestinians.

www.aljazeera.com

Happening now

 

[tim]

Considering the news that's coming out about what's happening in North Gaza I'm starting to find the whataboutery in last few pages a tad tiresome to say the least.

Your whataboutery about Lula was a bit odd.

 

[Gramsci]

Your whataboutery about Lula was a bit odd.

I'm finding your constant whataboutery when a genocide is taking place on our screens distasteful.

 

[Gramsci]

People go to help a wounded child and they are targeted.

What one can one say?

 

[Serge Forward]

No mention at all of arms sales by those states in the post above, so isn't there something of the "whatabout" in your responses to my response?

You're coming across as a bit of a dick with your constant whataboutery. This  thread is about the shit going on in Israel/Palestine and now Lebanon. For years, I've often been a bit bemused by the left's obsession with Israel/Palestine, to the extent that bad shit in other parts of the world often got ignored or downplayed. Now however, in 2024, there is an actual Palestinian genocide going on before our eyes, and with the support of many western countries. So, if it's alright with you, at this time we really should be screaming about slaughtered Palestinians from the fucking rooftops without your "what about Saudi, Sudan etc" comments.

 

[Duncan2]

People go to help a wounded child and they are targeted.

What one can one say?

We stand with Israel?

 

[Pickman's model]

No mention at all of arms sales by those states in the post above, so isn't there something of the "whatabout" in your responses to my response?

Just stfu pls

 

[Gramsci]

So a couple of pages of debate concerning whether using 'Nazi' to describe Israel's actions in a present-day context. I for one wouldn't use it as I feel it is unhelpful, though I do feel there is a psychological case to be made that the abused has become the abuser; it is uncanny, in the worst possible way. In any event is brings me to this that I've just read. Palestinian writer susan abulhawa was commissioned by Guardian US to write a piece for a series they were running: “rise against fascism”. She duly did so but it was never published by the Guardian because Katharine Viner, the Guardian’s global editor-in-chief wanted the word 'holocaust' replaced by 'genocide'. susan abulhawa refused. Her reasons are explained in this Novara article:

Discontent Deepens Among Guardian Staff Over Palestine ‘Double Standard’ | Novara Media

Staff say the paper’s decision to permit Howard Jacobson’s controversial piece while censoring a leading Palestinian author is driven in part by a fear of antisemitism allegations. Rivkah Brown reports.

novaramedia.com

Novara have also published the piece originally intended for the Guardian US with the word 'holocaust' included:

I Went to Gaza. What I Saw Was a Holocaust | Novara Media

‘Israel is committing the holocaust of our time,’ writes Palestinian author susan abulhawa, ‘and it is doing it in full view of a seemingly indifferent world.’

novaramedia.com

Finally got around to reading both articles.

I thought Susan Abulhawa wrote a good hard hitting piece.

I can see in UK context using word holocaust would , as one person quoted said, lead whole of her article being about the use of that word.

Myself I can understand why the Guardian editor wanted word changed to genocide. Which is also hard hitting word to use.

However the double standard is seen when Howard Jacobson's article ( posted about on this thread ) gets published when Susan Abulhawa doesn't.

Howard Jacobson article was in Observer. But appears head of Guardian also has final say.

All of the six Guardian journalists who spoke to Novara Media agreed that the treatment of Abulhawa and Jeffries pointed to a stark inconsistency in how the Guardian treats Israel and Palestine.

“Is there a double standard between running Howard Jacobson and not running Susan Abulhawa? Clearly there is, yes,” said one long-serving staffer. “If you’re prepared to run Howard Jacobson then it does seem out of kilter, if your only objection is about that language, then yeah. I understand why that decision might’ve been made, but does it seem that there is an inconsistency there? Yes.”

So far from the liberal left giving Israel a hard time its self censoring itself to detriment of its coverage

This is understandable given the pressure put an editor will get for any article that is even slightly critical of Israel. Examples given in the Novara article.

At end the Novara article does say that some journalists on the paper say this is out of kilter with their readership. This isn't going to do the paper any good in long term.

Theres plenty of other places to get coverage. Al Jazeera being one.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

 

[teqniq]

People go to help a wounded child and they are targeted.

What one can one say?

I nearly posted this here yesterday but chose not to because of the cries of voyeuristic porn and suchlike when I posted a pic of dead bodies. This imo is actually far worse, but I'm not going to complain that you've posted it. In fact we should bear witness to the atrocities being committed. This is a war crime, no doubt imo.

 

[brogdale]

I know we're not meant to just put stuff up without comment, but genuinely no words...

 

[teqniq]

Photos of IDF soldiers burning Jabalia Refugee Camp. Photos are taken from their own social media accounts:

Thread by @ytirawi on Thread Reader App

@ytirawi: 10 pictures showing Israeli soldiers burning Jabalia Refugee Camp in the past 2 days. Obtained through Israeli soldiers on their private social media accounts 1/ 2/ 3/ 4/ 5/ 6/ 7/ 8/ 9/

threadreaderapp.com

 

[brogdale]

Photos of IDF soldiers burning Jabalia Refugee Camp. Photos are taken from their own social media accounts:

Thread by @ytirawi on Thread Reader App

@ytirawi: 10 pictures showing Israeli soldiers burning Jabalia Refugee Camp in the past 2 days. Obtained through Israeli soldiers on their private social media accounts 1/ 2/ 3/ 4/ 5/ 6/ 7/ 8/ 9/

threadreaderapp.com

So much evidence amassing for the Hague.

 

[teqniq]

So much evidence amassing for the Hague.

Speaking of which, where the fuck are they? If they were going to. they should have issued arrest warrants by now surely? I suspect they have been heavily leant on, possibly even blackmailed.

 

[_Russ_]

Daily slaughter, they are normalising it.
The apparent enjoyment of the job shown by the IDF is disturbing, I don't think for one moment most of them do actually enjoy it they must be quite broken themselves to act this way.
What happens after this ends?, how could you live next door to someone who you know has done such terrible things?
Even If Israel achieves what it considers a victory it's society is fucked for a long time

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Look to their language, they only project. What they have said is exactly what is happening. Look to the testimonies of the people and children leaving their prisons. Anally
Raped with truncheons and tasered on their genitals.
Tortured by Smotrich himself. Attacked by dogs.
To deny this well documented information in order to preserve your own cognitive dissonance.
The 4th reich is in full effect and you will be next.

 

[PTK]

The Israeli forces, who also beat the British in the a war of liberation 1947, drove Palestinians off their land and into refugee camps, but who drove the Jews out of Europe; and shot and gassed those who didn't move fast enough? Who created the conditions that made emigration to Palestine the safest option for European Jews? And who subsequent to the creation of Israel drove the Mizrahi Jews from their homes in other parts of the Middle East?

It was not a war of national liberation, because at the time there was not an Israeli Jewish nation. The Israeli Jewish nation – a group of people sharing a common language – came into existence AFTER the creation of the State of Israel.

The majority of the Jewish population of Palestine at the time of the foundation of the State of Israel were immigrants, and did not constitute a nation. This explains why only one of the twelve members of the first government of the State of Israel was born in Palestine. Ten were born in Europe and one in North America.

 

[maomao]

It was not a war of national liberation, because at the time there was not an Israeli Jewish nation. The Israeli Jewish nation – a group of people sharing a common language – came into existence AFTER the creation of the State of Israel.

This isn't at all true. Hebru was reestablished in the 19th century when it had its own newspapers and was already one of the three recognised languages of the British Mandate of Palestine in 1922. I'm not sure why you're quibbling over a word the admittedly very-annoying-on-this-thread tim didn't actually use, but the Jews of Palestine between 1922 and 1947 meet any reasonable definition of the word 'nation'.

 

[Weller]

He really is a vile piece of shit.

"they are actors trying to paint us in a bad light" yeah he really is a vile piece of shit hes always been an evil gas lighting insane sick f*cker who makes my blood boil everytime Ive seen him

In a calm, clinical interview held in Norway, renowned journalist Yama Wolasmal picks apart the duplicitous propaganda from Israeli spokesperson David Mencer.

At one point, Mencer says (with a straight face), “We feel that we are the most humane army to have ever existed in living memory.”

Wolasmal: “Then why do your soldiers shoot at people with white flags? You even shot your own hostages.”

David Mencer is the former director of the largest foreign policy lobbying group in the UK Labour Party, Labour Friends of Israel and previously worked for a number of Labour MPs

 

[ID47]

But they make us nice stuff in their factories.

If it wasn't for the PRC probably none of us would be posting here. Anyone using a non Chinese made computer, phone tablet, router or modem?

 

[PTK]

This isn't at all true. Hebru was reestablished in the 19th century when it had its own newspapers and was already one of the three recognised languages of the British Mandate of Palestine in 1922. I'm not sure why you're quibbling over a word the admittedly very-annoying-on-this-thread tim didn't actually use, but the Jews of Palestine between 1922 and 1947 meet any reasonable definition of the word 'nation'.

I think that for them to have qualified as a nation, they would have to have the ability to form an independent state, and I am not sure that they did.

 

[HeAthen]

"they are actors trying to paint us in a bad light" yeah he really is a vile piece of shit hes always been an evil gas lighting insane sick f*cker who makes my blood boil everytime Ive seen him

Yet these murderous fuckers keep being allowed on TV to spread their lies without being challenged to any meaningful degree. The media is as complicit in these atrocities as that cunt is.

 

[Idris2002]

Daily slaughter, they are normalising it.
The apparent enjoyment of the job shown by the IDF is disturbing, I don't think for one moment most of them do actually enjoy it they must be quite broken themselves to act this way.
What happens after this ends?, how could you live next door to someone who you know has done such terrible things?
Even If Israel achieves what it considers a victory it's society is fucked for a long time

Live next door? How could you live with one in the house? Around your kids?

 

[maomao]

I think that for them to have qualified as a nation, they would have to have the ability to form an independent state, and I am not sure that they did.

Neither do the Cherokee or the Kurds.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Yet these murderous fuckers keep being allowed on TV to spread their lies without being challenged to any meaningful degree. The media is as complicit in these atrocities as that cunt is.

The 4th Branch

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