Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

Doubtless when the IDF 'look into it', it will be deemed a 'tragic mistake'. That's if they even bother looking into it at this point.

Oxfam condemns killing of water engineers in Gaza | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

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There seems to be a wilful refusal to realise that coordinating with the idf is what is getting people killed. Palestinians move where the zionists demand and are bombed in the areas they're told to move to. Aid workers tell the idf their routes and their vehicles are attacked. After hundreds of these incidents you don't need to be sherlock holmes or poirot to work out what's going on

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Until Israel owns up to its own history of violence, the expulsion of 700,000+ Palestinians in 1948, the invasion of Gaza during the Suez crisis, with its attendant massacres, the attack on its neighbours in 1967, its repeated invasions of Lebanon, its ongoing expansionist occupation of the West Bank, its long standing policy of assassination of its opponents around the world, its possession of nuclear weapons, its manipulation of the truth - until Israel does all this and much more, including reparations and reconstruction, the Middle East will not see peace. That's not hard to understand.
Palestinians need to be honest too about actions taken on their behalf over the decades. But Israel is the aggressor here. Israel needs to change. I can't see that happening in any hurry. Not voluntarily.
Some on here may get a warm feeling about Israel for personal or family reasons. I can't. Never will now. That doesn't mean I hate all Israelis, but the state of Israel and its history just fills me with disgust.

 

[teqniq]

This happened overnight

'At least 87 killed or missing' in strike on Gaza town, medics say - as Israel says drone launched at Netanyahu's house

Fallout from the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar continues to be felt in the region, as Iran's supreme leader said the militant group would live on.

news.sky.com

 

[HeAthen]

This happened overnight

'At least 87 killed or missing' in strike on Gaza town, medics say - as Israel says drone launched at Netanyahu's house

Fallout from the killing of Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar continues to be felt in the region, as Iran's supreme leader said the militant group would live on.

news.sky.com

And according to Israel the numbers are exaggerated. Yeah right...

 

[mojo pixy]

Some on here may get a warm feeling about Israel for personal or family reasons. I can't. Never will now. That doesn't mean I hate all Israelis, but the state of Israel and its history just fills me with disgust.

Nobody is expecting anybody to develop warm feelings towards some random country they have no connection to. But this disgust at israeli history can easily be overplayed; many nations have a disgusting history, the 'united' kingdom no less (arguably even more) than any of them. Let's not judge any country's history by a different standard from that by which we judge our own: That doesn't mean I hate all British people but the state of Great Britain and its history just fills me with disgust.

 

[Happy Tree]

But the illegal expansion is still happening now. That's what makes it currently disgusting. If somehow the Israel administration could stop this and start to make peace and integrate the people into situation now then eventually attitudes would change. The past is a fait accompli and I think it's unhelpful to talk of pre-whatever borders. It was wrong, but it's been done. They just need to stop it now.

The Gaza situation was bad enough but now they're into Lebanon. Where do they want it to end? Do they? And of course by "they" I mean Netanyahu and his cohorts. Nothing to do with "Jews", just these warmongering men.

 

[mojo pixy]

Right, disgust at now, disgust at history, why not disgust at the future too for a full house

Who knows where it ends, not me that's for sure. But the more people treat it as a zero-sum problem, the less likely peace will ever bloom at all.

 

[maomao]

The history of Western Colonialism does fill me with disgust. The genocide in Palestine is urgent and ongoing and the governments of Britain, the US and Autralia, along with many others, are complicit. The US in particular have fostered the sense of Israeli exceptionalism that has allowed things to go this far. We don't really need to restate that on every page.

 

[mojo pixy]

Evidently we do though.

 

[maomao]

Evidently we do though.

For whose benefit?

 

[krtek a houby]

You don't fool me

You are a bigot, though.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Evidently we do though.

Because certain posters such as you keep listing other wrong things. Yes those other wrong things are wrong. So the fuck what?

 

[mojo pixy]

For whose benefit?

Why does it have to be for anyone's benefit?

 

[mojo pixy]

Because certain posters such as you keep listing other wrong things. Yes those other wrong things are wrong. So the fuck what?

It's not a question of other things being wrong, it's s question of the standards we judge wrongness by and how we express that judgement.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's not a question of other things being wrong, it's s question of the standards we judge wrongness by and how we express that judgement.

I judge genocide by a standard that holds the mass slaughter of innocent people to be wrong.

Hth

 

[maomao]

Why does it have to be for anyone's benefit?

Start a thread about indigenous rights in the US, Brazil or Australia then. They're all worthy topics and I'd read and probably contribute. Repeatedly bringing them up on here just feels like either an excuse or an unwarranted accusation.

 

[Happy Tree]

The other disgusting things aren't brought up as much because this is a thread about Israel and Hamas. In the thread about Ukraine I'll be happy to be disgusted about Russia's war of aggression.

 

[Serge Forward]

n
Or for the Egyptian, or Saudi dictators.

I agree that Egyptian or Saudi dictators don't give a fuck about Palestinians, but I wasn't aware that they were supplying the State of Isreal with weapons to kill the Palestinians.

 

[mojo pixy]

I judge genocide by a standard that holds the mass slaughter of innocent people to be wrong.

Same.

Start a thread about indigenous rights in the US, Brazil or Australia then. They're all worthy topics and I'd read and probably contribute. Repeatedly bringing them up on here just feels like either an excuse or an unwarranted accusation.

Rather like the 'nazis' thing.

History didn't start a new phase in 1948, human rights are meant to be universal. If genocide matters in one place and time, it matters in all places and times.

This pushback is interesting though. And no, I won't start a new thread. I'll stay right here pointing out hypocrisy

And occasionally taking a break.

 

[ID47]

Nobody is expecting anybody to develop warm feelings towards some random country they have no connection to. But this disgust at israeli history can easily be overplayed; many nations have a disgusting history, the 'united' kingdom no less (arguably even more) than any of them. Let's not judge any country's history by a different standard from that by which we judge our own: That doesn't mean I hate all British people but the state of Great Britain and its history just fills me with disgust.

Most nations have disgusting histories but most nations are not committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing, defacto 'apartheid' and mass murder of tens of thousands of civilians right now in 2024.

2024 FFS.

 

[mojo pixy]

Most nations have disgusting histories but most nations are not committing war crimes, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing, defacto 'apartheid' and mass murder of tens of thousands of civilians right now in 2024.

2024 FFS.

No indeed. And let's wait to see who's joining in come 2025...

 

[maomao]

stay right here pointing out hypocrisy

It's not hypocrisy to talk about Israel on the Israel thread.

 

[krtek a houby]

Kamal Adwan hospital under attack . From Al Jazeera -

Israeli forces bomb Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza​

The Kamal Adwan Hospital in Beit Lahiya is under Israeli forces’ attack as heavy bombardment continues across northern Gaza.
Hussam Abu Safia, the hospital’s director, said in a statement Israeli strikes damaged the hospital’s water tanks and electricity grid, severely disrupting medical services.
The area surrounding the hospital has been subjected to intense bombing and gunfire for several hours, placing patients and medical staff in danger, he added.
This assault on the hospital is part of a broader campaign of relentless air and artillery strikes that have pummelled northern Gaza for 16 days.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Same.


Rather like the 'nazis' thing.

History didn't start a new phase in 1948, human rights are meant to be universal. If genocide matters in one place and time, it matters in all places and times.

This pushback is interesting though. And no, I won't start a new thread. I'll stay right here pointing out hypocrisy

And occasionally taking a break.

And a genocide that is happening right now is the subject of this thread. No hypocrisy in thinking the murder happening today is somehow the thing to concentrate on.

 

[ID47]

The history of Western Colonialism does fill me with disgust. The genocide in Palestine is urgent and ongoing and the governments of Britain, the US and Autralia, along with many others, are complicit. The US in particular have fostered the sense of Israeli exceptionalism that has allowed things to go this far. We don't really need to restate that on every page.

Exactly, without this ridiculous concept of 'Israeli exceptionalism' things would be very different.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's not hypocrisy to talk about Israel on the Israel thread.

And a genocide that is happening right now is the subject of this thread. No hypocrisy in thinking the murder happening today is somehow the thing to concentrate on.

Right.

Correct, both. But that wasn't the hypocrisy I meant.

 

[maomao]

Right.

Correct, both. But that wasn't the hypocrisy I meant.

Well you're not being clear enough about your meaning then because that's the obvious implication of saying 'why aren't you talking about Brazil, Australia and the US?' Maybe you should be more explicit.

 

[ID47]

No indeed. And let's wait to see who's joining in come 2025...

What? WTF

 

[maomao]

Fwiw mojo pixy , I have a deep and abiding love for Chinese culture and people. I can't imagine going on a thread about Tibet or Xinjiang and saying 'what about the US?'. And yet I'm able to call out anti-Chinese racism when I see it.

 

[mojo pixy]

Fwiw mojo pixy , I have a deep and abiding love for Chinese culture and people. I can't imagine going on a thread about Tibet or Xinjiang and saying 'what about the US?'. And yet I'm able to call out anti-Chinese racism when I see it.

You're right. I could have mentioned Xinjiang and the lack of attention it gets. 7 pages in 6.5 years with no nazi comparisons, while this one's got 504 pages in just over a year and nazi comparisons out the wazoo.