Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Gramsci]

Don't know if this has been shared yet (couldn't find it after a quick search)
Vol. 46 No. 5 · 7 March 2024
EXTRA

The Shoah after Gaza​

Pankaj Mishra​

Pankaj Mishra · The Shoah after Gaza

Memories of Jewish suffering at the hands of Nazis are the foundation on which most descriptions of extreme ideology and...

www.lrb.co.uk

Giving this a second reading. Thanks for posting up. It covers a lot of ground and subjects.

What struck me was the general sympathy for Israel ( in West) in it's early days ( including the writer). That this good will was squandered by those leading Israel over the decades ( my reading of what is implied in article). To the point now , if I read Pankaj Mishra correctly, western leaders like Biden are now defending the indefensible.

Secondly struck that Holocaust survivors like Primo Levi became over time highly critical of Israeli government actions. And were critical publicly. For which they got criticised for doing.

 

[lazythursday]

Let's call it 5k tops

Google trends shows a huge increase in searches for Balfour over past couple of days - like by about fourteen-fold. From another tool, looks like worldwide search numbers for 'Balfour' are generally in the 30K / week mark - my fagpacket calculations based on that is about 104K people finding out more about the history of the Balfour Declaration.

And that's not including people who might find out more from reading arguments about it on social media etc.

 

[Gramsci]

On Palestine Action slashing the painting of Balfour:

Here is what they say:

Palestine Action slash painting of Lord Balfour in the University of Cambridge

Images and videos are available for free here Palestine Action ruined a 1914 painting by Philip Alexius de László inside Trinity College, University of Cambridge of Lord Arthur James Balfour […]

www.palestineaction.org

As posted previously don't agree with the historical straight line they draw from Balfour to now.

I was a bit confused in their article.

Later in article they are going on about the Arab Revolt. Though it's not clear from article.

I'd preferred it if they separated these two events.

Arab Revolt was much later in Mandate. Balfour declaration preceded mandate but was written into it.

Really Britain should apologise for Balfour declaration and separately the suppression of the Arab Revolt.

Agree with Palestine Action that British empire had no right to support giving away land that had nothing to do with them

The Arab Revolt I came across in Caroline Elkins history of Empire "The Legacy of Violence". There its ( correctly) seen as part of a pattern of how the supposed liberal empire put down revolts. Using same techniques of collective punishment, mass arrests and detention etc across Empire

More here.

Palestinians deserve reparations for Britain's colonial crimes

A Palestinian billionaire is pushing the British government to apologise for the Balfour Declaration and its legacy, but this would not come close to compensating for decades of Palestinian suffering

www.middleeasteye.net

What about the atrocities that Britain committed against the Palestinian people during this period, especially during their great revolt of 1936-39? Should Palestinians not demand reparations

Some time ago Palestine Authority asked Britain to apologise for Balfour declaration. Not only did it refuse it said it was proud of it. ( this was under Tory government)

Palestinians threaten to sue the British Government over creation of Israel

British Government says it is ‘proud of our role in creating the State of Israel’

www.independent.co.uk

So given that legacy Palestine Action were justified imo in slashing the painting.

There is still this underlying attitude in this country that it's not got anything to apologise for during its Imperial period.

This morning turned on radio 4 and someone was moaning about people trying to "trash" this countries history ( of empire)

 

[CH1]

Don't know if this has been shared yet (couldn't find it after a quick search)
Vol. 46 No. 5 · 7 March 2024
EXTRA

The Shoah after Gaza​

Pankaj Mishra​

Pankaj Mishra · The Shoah after Gaza

Memories of Jewish suffering at the hands of Nazis are the foundation on which most descriptions of extreme ideology and...

www.lrb.co.uk

That's heavy. I notice Pankaj Mishra has a very thoroughgoing analytical style - and mentions George Steiner - a 1960s public intellectual who fascinated me as a schoolboy, Steiner did a series of BBC radio lectures subsequently published as a book - one of whose preoccupations was to explore how the holocaust could occur.
In Bluebeard's Castle - Wikipedia

He continued these speculations ten years later in a philosophical novel - The Portage to San Christobal of AH.
This has Hitler captured on the run in South America and put on trial where he is able to make a powerful speech justifying his actions.
This provocation was according to Steiner intended to make the reader supply the counter arguments - even more shocking in the stage version.
To quote Wiki: "One of the biggest criticisms Steiner received was that he himself believed what his fictive Hitler said about the Jews.[44] It was also thought that at the end of the London theatre production, the audience were applauding Hitler and not the play."[45]

The Portage to San Cristobal of A.H. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I imagine George Stener would not be being published by Faber and Faber, or gracing the London stage right now.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

Don't know if this has been shared yet (couldn't find it after a quick search)
Vol. 46 No. 5 · 7 March 2024
EXTRA

The Shoah after Gaza​

Pankaj Mishra​

Pankaj Mishra · The Shoah after Gaza

Memories of Jewish suffering at the hands of Nazis are the foundation on which most descriptions of extreme ideology and...

www.lrb.co.uk

good read, thank you.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

It all keeps falling down.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

The idea destroying art is outrageous given everything else is laughable at this point.

 

[two sheds]

This was the sort of thing I was thinking the video with the woman taking over someone's house referred to (wasn't shot but I can't see her successfully pursuing it)

 

[scalyboy]

He continued these speculations ten years later in a philosophical novel - The Portage to San Christobal of AH.
This has Hitler captured on the run in South America and put on trial where he is able to make a powerful speech justifying his actions.
This provocation was according to Steiner intended to make the reader supply the counter arguments - even more shocking in the stage version.
To quote Wiki: "One of the biggest criticisms Steiner received was that he himself believed what his fictive Hitler said about the Jews.[44] It was also thought that at the end of the London theatre production, the audience were applauding Hitler and not the play."[45]

The Portage to San Cristobal of A.H. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I imagine George Stener would not be being published by Faber and Faber, or gracing the London stage right now.

Terrific novel - £69 paperback on Amazon but last year I got a cheap (i.e. under a tenner) s/hand copy via abebooks.co.uk.

Highly recommended, both for the philosophical questions it poses and for the 'action adventure in the jungle' aspect (heat, mosquitoes, hacking through dense forest undergrowth etc)

It builds to a climax whereby 'A.H.' delivers his lengthy and unrepentant speech, just as you imagine he would've done had he been captured by the USSR or Allied forces and placed on trial.

If I recall correctly, one of his points is: "You believed yourselves to be the Chosen People; well, so did we".

 

[belboid]

He continued these speculations ten years later in a philosophical novel - The Portage to San Christobal of AH.
This has Hitler captured on the run in South America and put on trial where he is able to make a powerful speech justifying his actions.
This provocation was according to Steiner intended to make the reader supply the counter arguments - even more shocking in the stage version.
To quote Wiki: "One of the biggest criticisms Steiner received was that he himself believed what his fictive Hitler said about the Jews.[44] It was also thought that at the end of the London theatre production, the audience were applauding Hitler and not the play."[45]

The Portage to San Cristobal of A.H. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I saw a play of that in Sydney Opera House, in 1984.

 

[Gramsci]

This was the sort of thing I was thinking the video with the woman taking over someone's house referred to (wasn't shot but I can't see her successfully pursuing it)

The issue I have with video like this is it can give impression that there are these individual settlers who are evicting Palestinians.

The actual history is worse. Its not just about a fringe element doing this to Palestinians. Its part and parcel of Zionism as a political project.

Been reading the book by the Israeli architect Eyal Weizman "Hollow Lands". A look at the occupation from the point of view of an architect.

The system of occupation built up over decades isn't just about fringe religious elements. ( Though they have increased influence ) ts about how planning and architecture has been ( misused ) to build an Apartheid system. Or if one does not like the term a system based on separation.

Its a complex system of control of Palestinian population. Through planning / checkpoints/ separation wall/ different forms of surveillance.

One argument of his is that the so called peace process made it worse.

Complicated regimes of borders came to be organised. With a Palestinian authority given the fiction that they are in control.

A lot of this is boring technical detail. The pacification of occupation.

This was all written before Hamas attack on Israel.

One thing Eyal Weizman says the peace solutions either One State or Two State won't work to bring equality whilst this system of separation and control of population is not dismantled. Its not just the kind of peace its the longer term dismantling of this oppressive system that has been built up

Hollow Land

Verso Books is the largest independent, radical publishing house in the English-speaking world, publishing one hundred books a year.

www.versobooks.com

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

The idea destroying art is outrageous given everything else is laughable at this point.

Tbh, my knee jerk reaction was to think they could've made the same/similar point without slashing the painting. Weird, given I thought toppling the Edward Colston statute in Bristol was fair enough. I guess my cognitive dissonance was partly due to the destructive nature versus relocation/

But I follow Joris.lechene on Instagram and he talks a lot of sense about decolonialisation.



He makes some very fair points, excellent, in fact. So I admit my first reaction was wrong. In fact, in the context of what's happening over there, wtf was I thinking.

Sorry for being such a knee-jerk unthinking twat.

 

[CH1]

Tbh, my knee jerk reaction was to think they could've made the same/similar point without slashing the painting. Weird, given I thought toppling the Edward Colston statute in Bristol was fair enough. I guess my cognitive dissonance was partly due to the destructive nature versus relocation/

But I follow Joris.lechene on Instagram and he talks a lot of sense about decolonialisation.



He makes some very fair points, excellent, in fact. So I admit my first reaction was wrong. In fact, in the context of what's happening over there, wtf was I thinking.

Sorry for being such a knee-jerk unthinking twat.

His final peroration makes a powerful point - but in a way it answers itself. IS there a statue of Hermann Göring in public squares in Munich etc?
NO. But there is a bust in the Royal Air Force Museum oddly enough Bust of Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring by Walther Wolff, bronze

As regards Lord Balfour's picture - this was done in 1914, several years before the Balfour declaration. The artist specialised in "society" portraits - such as ex-Prime Ministers.
Do we get our universities to review all their portraits hanging in public view, in case vigilantes decide to purge or destroy them for particular political reasons?

 

[two sheds]

Adds it to the Risk Assessment then.

Not a bad idea though - just take them out of public accessibility until this sorts itself out and people have moved on to things like tarring and feathering oil company CEOs?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Tbh, my knee jerk reaction was to think they could've made the same/similar point without slashing the painting. Weird, given I thought toppling the Edward Colston statute in Bristol was fair enough. I guess my cognitive dissonance was partly due to the destructive nature versus relocation/

But I follow Joris.lechene on Instagram and he talks a lot of sense about decolonialisation.



He makes some very fair points, excellent, in fact. So I admit my first reaction was wrong. In fact, in the context of what's happening over there, wtf was I thinking.

Sorry for being such a knee-jerk unthinking twat.

Totally fine to change your mind, and have a lot of respect for the reflection on the statue.

 

[PTK]

.

 

[CH1]

Adds it to the Risk Assessment then.

Not a bad idea though - just take them out of public accessibility until this sorts itself out and people have moved on to things like tarring and feathering oil company CEOs?

Remember those innocent days of Cedric the Pig 30 years ago.....

 

[editor]

Shocking footage on the BBC news now showing Israeli soldiers zip tying hospital patients.

 

[oryx]

Gaza medics tell BBC that Israeli troops beat and humiliated them after hospital raid

Medical staff at Nasser hospital say they were blindfolded, detained, and forced to strip by Israeli soldiers.

www.bbc.co.uk

Tortured for doing your job.

A horrific story but good to see this is the top story on the BBC news.

 

[editor]

Some great writing by Charlotte Church

Nigel Farage has spoken at length over many years about “Cultural Marxism”, “Soros-funded organisations”, “unelected Globalists”, and innumerable other antisemitic dog-whistles. Often this has been in conversation with people like Alex Jones of InfoWars or Rick Wiles of TruNews - known and self-avowed anti-semites. He is also notorious for sowing division, particularly along racial lines. But apparently none of that disqualifies him from being interviewed by the BBC’s Nick Robinson about what should and shouldn’t be done about “extremists” in Britain today. When Robinson asked Farage whether I should be arrested (!) for singing “From the river to the sea...” Farage called me a “naive idiot”, and said that I should be “given a severe warning”, and “made to see the error of [my] ways”.

David Baddiel is a man whose checkered history with racism needs no commentary from me, but who has notably repositioned himself as an expert on racism in recent years. On his new podcast with Tory peer Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, Baddiel laughed theatrically at my activism, before deigning to correct me for not understanding the meaning of my own words. (It’s worth noting that Warsi went on to say that for “a whole load of people” the phrase “from the river to the sea...” means “equal rights for Palestinians and Israelis in the lands from the river to the sea”.)

Perhaps the superiority of being a self-proclaimed “public intellectual” has gone to his head, but Baddiel, as with Farage, is an all-too-common example of a professional opinion monger who resorts to tactics made to silence voices that dissent from his own. I am not the right sort of person to be discussing this in the eyes of Baddiel, Farage, Robinson, or any of the others, and the condescending manner in which my charitable work is being spoken of reeks of misogyny. I am incredibly familiar with the “shush, silly girl” strategy. It is used to discredit me and my message of solidarity without engaging me in debate. I truly am sick to the back teeth of men like these.

“Charlotte Church denies antisemitism"​

This was the headline on the BBC News website. The Guardian ran the same one. There were many, many more news outlets that ran even more alarming headlines and stories, but I’ll focus on the BBC and Guardian stories. Making the story about my denial of anti-semitism is pure clickbait designed to accentuate the perceived scandal and obscure the reality of the situation - I sang a protest song in Bedwas Workmen’s Hall, and yet it sounds like I committed a hate crime.

An article from the BBC News last Sunday (3rd March), entitled “Nuance is being lost” seemingly without irony, said:

“Charlotte Church sang the controversial pro-Palestinian chant "From the river to the sea" at a concert. (She denied she was antisemitic).”

No more context was given - not the fact that this was a charity event, specifically to raise money for an ambulance in Gaza - not even the fact that it was an event in solidarity with Palestine, calling for a ceasefire. Not that it was an interfaith, intergenerational choir singing freedom songs from all over the world, No mention of the actual history of the usage of the phrase. Just incredibly irresponsible ‘journalism’.

At a time when democratic norms in the House of Commons are being overturned supposedly due to fears for MPs safety, I have to ask the BBC and The Guardian, amongst others: what about my safety?

I have been called many things in my time, but not until this week have I received so much imaginative and violent hate. I’ve never before been called “traitor”. The threats to my safety have resulted in the police coming round to check in on us. And the BBC continues to publish articles, with extremely inflammatory language that does not accurately represent the reality of the situation. I’m pretty sure it has broken its own guidelines about being “accurate and fair”.

And then Nick Robinson’s question to Nigel Farage: “Do you think Charlotte Church should be arrested?” I mean, are you real? To think that this was not only broadcast across multiple BBC platforms in a pre-recorded interview, but also that someone made an editorial decision to clip that bit up and toss it into the maelstrom of social media to promote the show, at a time of such febrile debate... how is that contributing to social cohesion, let alone considering my safety?!

I am not alone. What is being allowed to happen in Palestine by Western governments is waking people up to the violent reality of what the West is built upon: inequality, exploitation, colonisation. A line has been crossed and the majority of the people of the world are rising up against this most grotesque show of power and domination. We will never forget what has been allowed to happen.

Charlotte Church

Charlotte Church is the founder of The Dreaming, The Awen Project and likes a bit of singing an' all

charlotte-church.ghost.io

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Some great writing by Charlotte Church

Charlotte Church

Charlotte Church is the founder of The Dreaming, The Awen Project and likes a bit of singing an' all

charlotte-church.ghost.io

Very well written. I'm more than a little tired of Baddiel at this point...and Farage can go fuck himself.

 

[Gramsci]

Local to my area but representative of how the right of the Labour party have been hounding any Cllr who does not follow the Starmer line on Gaza.

This was not my Ward Cllr though I had dealt with her on local issues in Lambeth. never struck me as on left of party.

After a disciplinary interrogation after which four Labour Cllrs who voted for a Green party motion for a ceasefire were suspended. ( Including the only Jewish Labour Cllr in Lambeth) She decided to resign.

Councillor Sonia Winifred issues statement about her resignation, declaring no faith in Lambeth Council’s leadership

As we reported last week, Cllr Sonia Winifred of Knight’s Hill ward offered her immediate resignation from Lambeth Council after she voted for a Green party Motion at Full Council calling for an i…

www.brixtonbuzz.com

She has just put this on Twitter.

At the disciplinary hearing aka a show trial she was represented by Martin Forde QC



She does not say if she was actually accused of anti semitism at her show trial.

At the time of the Lambeth Green motion to Council for a ceasefire the right of the Labour party who are the leadership of the ruling Labour group were still going on the line that calling for a ceasefire in a multicultural borough like Lambeth was "divisive".

Polite way to suggest if not directly anti semitism but supporting a ceasefire was taking sides and helping to create a situation where anti semitism could increase.

Its just a reminder of the personal cost to individuals for sticking up what they think is right. Against a political establishment who have been smearing people for this.

 

[ska invita]

Netanyahu reaffirms they're going to attack/destroy Rafah

Netanyahu vows to defy Biden’s ‘red line’ on Rafah

Israel PM insists his priority is to prevent another terror attack like the October 7 Hamas raid.

www.politico.eu

 

[Gramsci]

Palestinian aid agency funding will stay frozen until reports received, says UK

US, UK and Australia and others will decide on Unrwa support only after seeing reports on Israeli claims, says Foreign Office minister

www.theguardian.com

I thought this had been sorted . But no. UK is still suspending money to UNRWA. Waiting for two reports on it.

The contrast is that UK government won't halt arms sales to Israel.

Mitchell ( foreign office minister )also rejected calls for a ban on arms exports to Israel, saying: “The current judgment of the British government is that Israel has the capacity and intent to comply with international humanitarian law.

The double standard continues.

 

[Knotted]

Netanyahu reaffirms they're going to attack/destroy Rafah

Netanyahu vows to defy Biden’s ‘red line’ on Rafah

Israel PM insists his priority is to prevent another terror attack like the October 7 Hamas raid.

www.politico.eu

He keeps saying this and it just hasn't happened (yet). I'm thinking this is a genuine red line for the Americans. I could well be wrong about that...

 

[ska invita]

He keeps saying this and it just hasn't happened (yet). I'm thinking this is a genuine red line for the Americans. I could well be wrong about that...

said theyd do it during ramadan, which has jsut started now

 

[Aladdin]

 

[teqniq]

Another war crime. I wonder what their excuse will be this time or even if they'll actually bother with one?

UN warehouse hit in deadly Israeli attack on Rafah

At least one UN staff member has been killed and another 22 injured in an Israeli attack on a UN aid distribution centre

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeh but it's more warsaw ghetto than auschwitz

 

[Aladdin]

Yeh but it's more warsaw ghetto than auschwitz

They are preparing to starve 1.5 million people in Rafah.
There are tens of thousands of people struggling with pneumonias.
Dying of disease and starvation...being allowed to die.
One way or another there will be 10s of thousands of more deaths.