Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

You think if Hamas surrender the Israelis would continue to attack?

Again, you're taking an abtuse view of this. Have you been asleep since 7 October or something? It is clear to all but the most naive that Israel's objectives have gone far beyond defeating Hamas. that doesn't mean they would continue if Hamas surrendered. They wouldn't. The window provided to them to achieve other objectives would be closed by a Hamas surrender.

But you appear to be seeing Israel's ongoing genocide as some kind of act of nature, which can't possibly be stopped until Hamas has been destroyed. It's not. It's a choice. Made by Israel.

To be crystal clear because you're saying some really fucking stupid things here, that does not imply support for Hamas. Hamas are bastards. But it's not Hamas conducting a genocide right now.

 

[8ball]

Again, you're taking an abtuse view of this. Have you been asleep since 7 October or something? It is clear to all but the most naive that Israel's objectives have gone far beyond defeating Hamas. that doesn't mean they would continue if Hamas surrendered. They wouldn't. The window provided to them to achieve other objectives would be closed by a Hamas surrender.

But you appear to be seeing Israel's ongoing genocide as some kind of act of nature, which can't possibly be stopped until Hamas has been destroyed. It's not. It's a choice. Made by Israel.

To be crystal clear because you're saying some really fucking stupid things here, that does not imply support for Hamas. Hamas are bastards. But it's not Hamas conducting a genocide right now.

And you seem to believe Hamas have no agency whatsoever. It also seems like your apparent compassion for Palestinians is overridden by some subtext that you are reluctant to discuss.

 

[Gramsci]

And you seem to believe Hamas have no agency whatsoever. It also seems like your apparent compassion for Palestinians is overridden by some subtext that you are reluctant to discuss.

Come on out with it. What is the subtext you are implying?

I've followed littlebabyjesus throughout this thread and his posts are clear.

 

[8ball]

Come on out with it. What is the subtext you are implying?

I've followed littlebabyjesus throughout this thread and his posts are clear.

I’m sure LBJ can speak for himself here, but the non sequiturs and caginess aren’t just restricted to him.

So Hamas are bastards, but they shouldn’t surrender. Is that where we’re at? Or is it more that Hamas surrendering is seen as less likely than the Israelis stopping their assault, so that can be the only focus?
Or that Israel getting any kind of “win” is worse than the Palestinians being wiped out?

Apologies if you don’t go with the “Hamas are bastards” proposition - that was LBJ. So you can ignore that first question if it doesn’t apply.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So Hamas are bastards, but they shouldn’t surrender.

I did not say that. That's where you're going wrong. And being a total fucking dick.

Leaving you alone now.

 

[8ball]

I did not say that. That's where you're going wrong. And being a total fucking dick.

Leaving you alone now.

You said they were bastards.
Are you saying they should surrender?

 

[Gramsci]

I’m sure LBJ can speak for himself here, but the non sequiturs and caginess aren’t just restricted to him.

So Hamas are bastards, but they shouldn’t surrender. Is that where we’re at? Or is it more that Hamas surrendering is seen as less likely than the Israelis stopping their assault, so that can be the only focus?
Or that Israel getting any kind of “win” is worse than the Palestinians being wiped out?

Apologies if you don’t go with the “Hamas are bastards” proposition - that was LBJ. So you can ignore that first question if it doesn’t apply.

Did not answer the question.

You said this:

your apparent compassion for Palestinians is overridden by some subtext that you are reluctant to discuss.

What is the subtext?

 

[Pickman's model]

What is the subtext?

Don't hold your breath

 

[Gramsci]

Just been watching Al Jazeera

A hospital is being attacked by IDF

Aid worker interviewed and says not enough food or supplies getting through.

Children are suffering from malnutrition

And argument here is about people who support ceasefire "subtext"

A bit sick really.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just been watching Al Jazeera

A hospital is being attacked by IDF

Aid worker interviewed and says not enough food or supplies getting through.

Children are suffering from malnutrition

And argument here is about people who support ceasefire "subtext"

A bit sick really.

You can tell a lot about a poster by their priorities on this thread

 

[8ball]

Did not answer the question.

You said this:



What is the subtext?

It’s not my subtext. I just noted that Hamas surrendering is not a popular idea here, despite being a route to stopping the killing.

So either it is not a route to stopping the killing, is not worth pursuing for other reasons, or stopping the killing isn’t the highest priority.

The last option would be the really sick bit.

 

[Gramsci]

It’s not my subtext. I just noted that Hamas surrendering is not a popular idea here, despite being a route to stopping the killing.

So either it is not a route to stopping the killing, is not worth pursuing for other reasons, or stopping the killing isn’t the highest priority.

The last option would be the really sick bit.

I know you never supported a ceasefire.

But to argue that those like me who support one do not want to stop the killing as highest priority is out of order.

 

[Gramsci]

It’s not my subtext. I just noted that Hamas surrendering is not a popular idea here, despite being a route to stopping the killing.

So either it is not a route to stopping the killing, is not worth pursuing for other reasons, or stopping the killing isn’t the highest priority.

The last option would be the really sick bit.

BTW you still haven't put in clear language what the subtext you were saying littlebabyjesus has is.

 

[Pickman's model]

BTW you still haven't put in clear language what the subtext you were saying littlebabyjesus has is.

He's just hitting his digging stride

 

[8ball]

I know you never supported a ceasefire.

But to argue that those like me who support one do not want to stop the killing as highest priority is out of order.

A ceasefire would be a fine thing. I never saw the Israelis as likely to go for it, rabid as they have been driven by the attack last year and their Government and media’s capitalising on it.

Regardless, ceasefires end. They can help get aid in, or move people around, but do you think Hamas will suddenly turn into reasonable people when given a chance to rearm?

 

[8ball]

BTW you still haven't put in clear language what the subtext you were saying littlebabyjesus has is.

I was asking LBJ to clarify this.
Perhaps you could..?

 

[kabbes]

Who is it, in this imagined universe of Hamas surrendering, that we imagine Hamas surrendering to? Who has legitimacy for receiving this surrender? And who are the actual individuals that are surrendering? All the Hamas fighters?

 

[Gramsci]

A ceasefire would be a fine thing. I never saw the Israelis as likely to go for it, rabid as they have been driven by the attack last year and their Government and media’s capitalising on it.

Regardless, ceasefires end. They can help get aid in, or move people around, but do you think Hamas will suddenly turn into reasonable people when given a chance to rearm?

I do wonder whether you have read any of this thread properly.

I've done a series of posts on Hamas.Their history/ actions.

I do not have the energy to go over all that again

 

[Gramsci]

I was asking LBJ to clarify this.
Perhaps you could..?

You are just not answering my question.

Sometimes I wonder if you go on urban just to be a wind up.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Who is it, in this imagined universe of Hamas surrendering, that we imagine Hamas surrendering to? Who has legitimacy for receiving this surrender? And who are the actual individuals that are surrendering? All the Hamas fighters?

They could come out waving a white flag. That definitely works.

 

[Gramsci]

I was asking LBJ to clarify this.
Perhaps you could..?

This is what you posted

And you seem to believe Hamas have no agency whatsoever. It also seems like your apparent compassion for Palestinians is overridden by some subtext that you are reluctant to discuss.

So what is it?

 

[8ball]

You are just not answering my question.

Sometimes I wonder if you go on urban just to be a wind up.

It was my question. Which I followed up on, trying to tease out whatever the consensus is. But round and round we go.

 

[8ball]

So what is it?

I’d like to know too.
What do you think it is?

 

[Gramsci]

It was my question. Which I followed up on, trying to tease out whatever the consensus is. But round and round we go.

It was not a question. It was a statement.

I'm not going around and around.

Your making unclear accusations at a poster.

 

[Gramsci]

I’d like to know too.
What do you think it is?

Tell you what I'm putting you on ignore for a while.

Your a deliberate time waster.

 

[8ball]

It was not a question. It was a statement.

I'm not going around and around.

Your making unclear accusations at a poster.

I said there appeared to be a subtext, yes. And have suggested several along the way.

 

[8ball]

Tell you what I'm putting you on ignore for a while.

Your a deliberate time waster.

Please do. Fucking liar.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It was my question. Which I followed up on, trying to tease out whatever the consensus is. But round and round we go.

You're being dishonest, attributing to people things they have not said. For example, I never said nor implied that I thought Hamas should not surrender. Fine to urge them to give up. But not to attach that as a condition for Israel stopping. That's not calling for a ceasefire. It's saying exactly what the likes of Starmer have been saying for the last four months. IE fuck all.

It's really simple. Israel, Stop Killing Babies. That was the call four months ago and it is the call today.

Your posts over the last page or so have been a load of fucking shite.

 

[8ball]

You're being dishonest, attributing to people things they have not said. For example, I never said nor implied that I thought Hamas should not surrender. Fine to urge them to give up. But not to attach that as a condition for Israel stopping. That's not calling for a ceasefire. It's saying exactly what the likes of Starmer have been saying for the last four months. IE fuck all.

It's really simple. Israel, Stop Killing Babies. That was the call four months ago and it is the call today.

Your posts over the last page or so have been a load of fucking shite.

It is Israel that has attached Hamas giving up as a condition for stopping.

 

[kabbes]

They could come out waving a white flag. That definitely works.

Who is it that would actually do this, though? And at what point would it work? When one fighter does it? 100? 1000?