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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

I'm not going on at length, I'm not the kind of person who needs to be seen to be right on a forum. I just want to clarify in response to specific questions.

Just wonder how you explain for example someone like Ilan Pappe. A Jew born in Israel who now advocates a one state solution.
I don't 'explain' him! He's very entitled to his views, which I agree with many of. But he doesn't represent any kind of Israeli mainstream, he's not responsible for negotiating a settlement, and frankly his position is a marginal one, as solid as it may be.
Or Avi Shlaim and Jeff Halper.

Or a younger generation of British Jewish people like Barnaby Raine.
Again it's not up to me to 'explain' people, anyone can (and should) read what they say, but never forget that what they express is still a minority view. Something to bear in mind and learn from, yes. Something to demand as a starting point, no.
Or to take it closer to home the British Jew Tony Judt. Who moved to saying one state solution later in life. And got a lot of flack for it.
Not surprisingly as it's a very minority view. It may be the best long-term solution but the work of convincing millions of israelis (and many, many non-israeli jews too) still remains to be done.

Demands for Israel to relinquish jewishness won't help with that btw.

Forgive me If I got you wrong previously but your two state solution does involve removing all the settlers from West Bank?
Yes it does. Of course it does. All settlements built 'inside the green line' since 1967 need to go. I've always thought so.

I'm not going to restate myself again and again, and I'm not arguing with everyone who puts a counter-point. We read and inwardly digest, or we don't. But my own mental health is more important to me than winning arguments (even this one)

I'd suggest this broader subject could do with its own thread, except I think we all know how that'd end up so I won't. And I certainly don't have the time or energy for it!
 
The phrase I think you're looking for is to terminate them with extreme prejudice
I think that every one of Netanyahu's government and their armies etc deserve to be arrested and held to account on the charge of genocide , ethnic cleansing and war crimes.
No prison sentence will bring back the innocent lives they took but they deserve to rot in prison for the rest of their lives.
 
We can't pass it on to the UN, but we can give it to our mates who keep funding our death and destruction thanks to some sleepy old cunt in the whitehouse. Or the other one who thinks sunshine up the arse cures viruses and wants his mate Putin to invade half the world.
 
Found that Moshe Machover has been writing for the Weekly Worker and has a series of articles on Gaza.

Was a leading figure in Matzpen- non Zionist left organisation in Israel. Lived in UK for many years originally from Israel


This for example argues that the underlying reason for what is happening in Gaza is the continuation of the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians:
However, as I have previously argued, ethnic cleansing can only take place at an opportune moment (she’at kosher, in Zionist parlance): in an international context which allows Israel to perpetrate this crime.

Eliminating Hamas as a goal is for international consumption.

What drives Zionism is to increase Israeli state minus the Palestinians.

Hence the pushing them to the south of Gaza. Making their lives so intolerable they will try to leave Gaza.

In long term he sees the main cleavage in State of Israel as that between the Messianic Zionists and the secular business bourgeois.


The divisions within Jewish Israeli society that were evident in the period preceding this war will definitely re-emerge in some form. Essentially, this will intensify the contradiction between two camps within Israeli Jewish society - on the one hand, the messianic wing and, on the other, the modern, secular business section of the Israeli bourgeoisie. There will be moves by the messianic Zionists to annex the West Bank to Israel. But in terms of the regime that this will create, it will annex Israel to the regime of the West Bank: this repressive, authoritarian, theocratic regime would be extended in one form or another to the whole of Israel. But that would be inimical to the interests of the secular bourgeoisie, whose activities are essential for making Israel one of the world’s modern, developed capitalist countries.

Either way this is not in the interests of the Palestinians

If IDF and government is successful in pushing Palestinians out of Gaza its an opportunity to colonise this piece of real estate.
 
The thread is an English translation of the Haaretz article with what are, I presume the photos from it.

I think my Twitter account has prob been deleted, anyway. I made a grand total of one Tweet the day it came out about David Cameron and the pig.
 
The thread is an English translation of the Haaretz article with commentary and with what are, I presume the photos from it.

Does the text below look familiar?
That’s def the same soldier.

I’m having more trouble with the paywall than the translation…

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Seeing as how you seem to have found a link to the article which is in Hebrew but are having trouble with the paywall, have you tried pasting the URL into an archive site to see if someone has already saved it? If they haven't you could archive it yourself:

 
Seeing as how you seem to have found a link to the article which is in Hebrew but are having trouble with the paywall, have you tried pasting the URL into an archive site to see if someone has already saved it? If they haven't you could archive it yourself:


Yeah, have tried a couple of archive sites. Maybe it’s some linking within the page and not the paywall…

Nae bother, I’ll have a bit of a tinker later..
 
How come India has decided to row in and support Israel by sending drones?

This article goes into parallels between Hindu nationalism and Zionism. Zionism of the right wing Revisionist sort.

However more quietly over years India did have links with Israel over arms deals. Prior to assent to power of Modi

During India's period when it went to modernise the neo liberal way and with demise of USSR went to get closer to US the article says India leaders were advised to have better relations with Israel if they wanted to get on with US.

Traditionally at least in public India had supported Palestinians.

It was with Modi and Netanyahu that the closer relationship went public.

In this case based on having ideological affinities.

Both are islamophobic and both are ethno nationalist.

Though Id say the article over emphasises the islamophobia links. For Hindu nationalism its fundamental. For Zionism its Palestinians that are the problem whether they are Christian or Muslim.
 
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This is not good:

The Egyptian authorities are beginning to build a security buffer zone surrounded by walls to receive the Palestinians of Gaza.The Sinai Foundation obtained information from a relevant source stating that the construction work currently underway in eastern Sinai is to create an isolated security zone with the border with the Gaza Strip, with the aim of receiving refugees from Gaza in the event of a mass exodus of residents of the Gaza Strip.In an interview with the Foundation, two local contractors said that the construction work, which was subcontracted to local companies and commissioned by the Sons of Sinai Construction and Building Company, owned by a businessman close to the authority, Ibrahim Al-Arjani, aims to create an area surrounded by walls 7 meters high, after removing the rubble of the homes of the indigenous people. Which were destroyed during the war on terrorism, and the soil will be paved and leveled, provided that these works are completed in the shortest possible time, not exceeding ten days.He also added that this information was circulated on a small scale with the aim of not spreading it, and that the work was being conducted under the supervision of the Armed Forces Engineering Authority and with a heavy security presence.Two days ago, the Sinai Foundation published a report supported by exclusive photos showing that the authorities began construction work at a very rapid pace, in light of a major security tightening in the border area in eastern Sinai. This morning, the Foundation’s team also monitored the construction of a 7-meter-high cement wall, starting from a point in the village of Goz Abu Waad, south of the city of Rafah, and heading north toward the Mediterranean Sea, parallel to the border with the Gaza Strip.In an interview with Muhannad Sabry, a researcher on Sinai affairs and security in Egypt, he said: “The construction works seen in Sinai along the border with Gaza - establishing a reinforced security perimeter around a specific, open area of land - are serious signs that Egypt may be preparing to accept... And allowing the displacement of the population of Gaza to Sinai, in coordination with Israel and the United States.”Engineering work had begun early in the morning of Monday, February 12, in an area whose northern border is limited to the village of Al-Masoura to the west and a point on the international border line south of the Rafah crossing, while its southern border is limited to the village of Joz Abu Raad and a point on the international border line south of the Kerem Abu Salem crossing. In light of the presence of officers affiliated with the Military Intelligence Service and a number of four-wheel drive vehicles carrying armed tribal members belonging to the “Knights of Al-Haytham” militia, affiliated with the Sinai Tribes Union, which is headed by businessman Ibrahim Al-Arjani, near the “Goz Abu Raad” area, south of the city of Rafah, accompanied by a large number of soldiers. Equipment and bulldozers accompanied by a number of local contractors

Source

Translated from:

 
This is just disgusting. I tried unrolling the thread but it did not work for some reason so it has to be read on Twitter:


Update:

8ball

The person who created this thread had threadreaderapp blocked. I asked them if this was the case and they unblocked it so here is the complete thread via threadreaderapp:

 
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