Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

I wonder which terrorists people will be discussing in 20-30 years time? There will almost definitely be a whole new bunch added to the mix.

And which of the wars that will be raging in various places will get attention, and which ones largely ignored?

all of this lot will be forgotten in the fallout from 2025

 

[Flavour]

Times of Israel reports that the IDF has bombed the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt

Israel reportedly bombs crossing between Gaza and Egypt

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Ax^]

I wonder which terrorists people will be discussing in 20-30 years time? There will almost definitely be a whole new bunch added to the mix.

And which of the wars that will be raging in various places will get attention, and which ones largely ignored?

you still be able to blame NATO don't worry

 

[Pickman's model]

Times of Israel reports that the IDF has bombed the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt

i don't suppose you have a link to the story you'd like to share do you

 

[cupid_stunt]

i don't suppose you have a link to the story you'd like to share do you

Rafah crossing between Gaza and Egypt disrupted by Israeli air raids

With Israel declaring ‘total blockade’ of Gaza, crossing with Egypt is single point in and out of besieged enclave.

www.aljazeera.com

Not good.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Pretty much what I was going to say.

People seem to like to ignore this when it suits their ideological position.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Times of Israel reports that the IDF has bombed the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt

Do you have a link. Given that they instructed people to get out, that's pretty bloody significant.

 

[Serge Forward]

They're the perfect example of how 'terrorist' is a loaded term. Were the ANC terrorists or a guerrilla force fighting a war of liberation? UK government also labelled the ANC terrorists once upon a not so long ago.

Sorry, but going round and mass shooting random people, kidnapping, raping, beheading, etc is pretty much terrorism in anyone's money (whatever the ideological or historical justification), as is besieging an area, cutting off water and basic amenities while levelling buildings with civilian populations inside.

 

[Flavour]

Link added

 

[frogwoman]

If the head of hamas did not know I wonder to what extent this could have been carried out by people who are dissatisfied with his leadership

 

[cupid_stunt]

Sorry, but going round and mass shooting random people, kidnapping, raping, beheading, etc is pretty much terrorism in anyone's money (whatever the ideological or historical justification), as is besieging an area, cutting off water and basic amenities while levelling buildings with civilian populations inside.

Terrorists to the left of them
Terrorists to the right
Here we're stuck in the middle with them

 

[likesfish]

some of the Hamas leadership are in Quatar after this they may not be as safe as they think they are

 

[Aladdin]

Don't think the Israelis would have let this one through deliberately. It's far more likely that hamas had help from people working for eg Russian or Iranian intelligence.

I really hope you are right.

 

[Aladdin]

Seems like the Egyptians got wind of something last minute and warned Netanyahu but he ignored them.

I was about to post this.
Its why I am very very concerned about how this will end for Palestinians.

 

[two sheds]

If Netanyahu did let them through and it came out he'd be finished though wouldn't he?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Don't think the Israelis would have let this one through deliberately. It's far more likely that hamas had help from people working for eg Russian or Iranian intelligence.

Perfectly OK with calling them terrorists even though Israeli actions have ensured their actions gain support. These are not good guys

Unlikely to be Russia, Iran is most likely behind this.

 

[kabbes]

None of this is going to end. This will continue as long as people in the region detest each other.

I think this is the key message, really. And the takeaway is that we need to be working out how to stop people in the region detesting each other.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I think this is the key message, really. And the takeaway is that we need to be working out how to stop people in the region detesting each other.

 

[frogwoman]

I really hope you are right.

The whole strategy re Gaza and the wall etc has been limiting the movement and saying look now we have 'peace and quiet' due to the wall and Israeli policies etc. The Israelis have also spent a shit ton of money on things like Iron Dome etc. I don't think even a psycho like Bibi would have wanted this to happen deliberately

 

[Aladdin]

Do you have a link. Given that they instructed people to get out, that's pretty bloody significant.

They changed the border crossing call. They indicated north first and then a while later said that was now closed and told the refugees to move south.

I read it this morning and now can't find the link.

On another note

This is Netanyahu.

"
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has promised to “change the Middle East” in the country’s war with Hamas.

“What Hamas will experience will be difficult and terrible … we are going to change the Middle East,” the 73-year-old leader told officials from southern Israel.

“This is only the beginning … we are all with you and we will defeat them with force, enormous force.”

'We will change the Middle East', vows Israeli PM

Israel has declared a "state of war" following Hamas's surprise weekend attack which blindsided the country's military and intelligence agencies.

www.euronews.com

 

[Pickman's model]

The whole strategy re Gaza and the wall etc has been limiting the movement and saying look now we have 'peace and quiet' due to the wall and Israeli policies etc. The Israelis have also spent a shit ton of money on things like Iron Dome etc. I don't think even a psycho like Bibi would have wanted this to happen deliberately

yeh but he's not one to let something like this go without seizing the opportunities it presents

 

[Pickman's model]

Unlikely to be Russia, Iran is most likely behind this.

he said on the basis of er no evidence

 

[Spymaster]

I think this is the key message, really. And the takeaway is that we need to be working out how to stop people in the region detesting each other.

That's never going to happen unless one side wipes out the other. The takeaway should be working out something that's at least partially achievable, like how to stop them killing each other.

 

[kabbes]

That's never going to happen unless one side wipes out the other. The takeaway should be working out something that's at least partially achievable, like how to stop them killing each other.

It’s certainly never going to happen without people trying to understand it at a level that goes beyond “this act was monstrous, therefore the people involved are just inexplicably evil. There should be no attempt to see any of it beyond that level.” That kind of pre-teen way of seeing the world will do nothing except for deepen rather than reduce the divisions.

 

[The39thStep]

Y-net news which is the online version of Yedioth Ahronoth a large Israeli paper is pretty forthcoming about 'the window of opportunity' that hard headed politicians making practical decisions need to seize upon

It will take some time for Israelis to get over the shock this well-coordinated Hamas offensive brought on to the Israeli psyche. The IDF, much like everyday Israelis, felt the same shock. They simply weren't ready for this.
However, the IDF still has a reputation as one of the toughest and most tactically advanced fighting-force, on earth, thus creating an expectation of a more rapid and robust response. Once it became clear this was not just another rocket offensive from the enclave, something Israelis are well-versed in, the response should have been faster and stronger. Much stronger.
No, the implication here isn't that a full-frontal land assault on Gaza should have commenced right away, which the IDF isn't ready for anyway, but consider this amazing fact - 40 hours have elapsed since the war began, and Hamas terrorists were still running around in the south like it's an amusement park.

The IDF called up thousands of soldiers in multiple locations, while the fence, that just three days ago everyone thought could not be breached, is now protected by tanks, watch towers and Air Force jets looking on from above. The public, petrified enough as it is, is still required to keep an eye out for Hamas militants who snuck past everyone and could be making their way north on Israel's highways, perhaps planning an attack there.

And despite a widespread expectation that Israeli jets will reign hell of the enclave, there needs to be some sort of reckoning. This is a situation that can be described more as "Lebanese" than "Gazan".
Make no mistake, though. The Israeli Air Force, when operating at full strength, is capable of so much more than it's currently displaying. It can absolutely rain death and destruction upon every little apartment in the strip, should it choose to.
One of the most obvious effects of the second Lebanon war, held 17 years ago, is that it made Hezbollah chief, Hassan Nasrallah, gain a new understanding of what the IDF can bring when it sets its mind and full dedication to it. it took him years to rebuild the destruction the IDF has left behind, and he rarely ventures outside anymore, in fear for his life.
"This is not about surgical strikes and military infrastructure anymore," an IDF officer said about the war in Gaza. "This means we will obliterate civilian infrastructure as well. Apartment buildings will be toppled. Hezbollah feeds off our apprehension to land a decisive strike, which means we will exhibit the exact opposite to avoid opening a northern front."

Yes, the world is sympathetic toward Israel right now, led by a clear backing displayed by the United States, but this is temporary. The window of opportunity to act, will close, and before it does, Gaza needs to pay the kind of price that will bring about a sense of trauma so profound, that they will never so much as contemplate such action, again.
It is imperative to strike while the iron is hot because it won't be too long before international statements of sympathy will be replaced with pressure to end things as peacefully as possible. Should that occur before Hamas has felt the full might of the IDF, Israeli deterrence will end up like so many men, women and children - Lost among forgotten Gaza alleys, from Beit Hanoun all the way to Khan Yunis.
While President Biden's reassuring words about backing Israel are indeed comforting, it was accompanied by decisive action - The United States is set to deploy an aircraft carrier, ships, and jets to the eastern Mediterranean. Additionally, Israel will be provided with extra equipment and ammunition, as announced by the US Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin.
The USS Ford is widely regarded as the most technologically advanced aircraft carrier in the US fleet. It is currently stationed in the Mediterranean to participate in joint exercises with the Italian army. Reports suggest that in addition to the 5,000 personnel on board the aircraft carrier, warplanes and warships will also be deployed.

The White House's decision to do so serves as a clear message to Nasrallah: the United States will not remain passive if Israel comes under attack from the north. Moreover, the USS Ford's presence in the region enables it to provide military support in various ways, including intercepting weapon shipments to Hamas and conducting surveillance operations.
Israelis who reside on the northern tip of the country were evacuating toward central Israel. Unlike the area surrounding the Gaza Strip. Israel's northern borders carry no clear deterrent, and a war with Hezbollah could complicate things no end.
That said, the IDF did bolster its presence there since the war began, just in case. Hopefully, it will prove sufficient to swiftly repel a Hezbollah offensive. God help us if it doesn't.

 

[Orang Utan]

What I kind of find really difficult to get my head around is that Hamas did this knowing full well the kind of response Israel would make.
It's deliberately extremely violent with videos of beheadings. This attack is massively designed to provoke an extreme response from Israel.
Its almost as if they're goading Israel. With Iran involved and their nuclear capabilities it's bound to terrify every normal thinking person in the region...Palestinian and Iranian.

It’s almost as if Hamas don’t actually have the Palestinian people’s best interests at heart

 

[kabbes]

(And I do quite literally mean a pre-teen morality, by the way)

 

[Humberto]

I was about to post this.
Its why I am very very concerned about how this will end for Palestinians.

Kind of just to echo this, Gaza was already in a shit state, now polities are talking about suspending the aid many relied on.

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s almost as if Hamas don’t actually have the Palestinian people’s best interests at heart

governments generally don't have their population's best interests at heart, do they

 

[Pickman's model]

Kind of just to echo this, Gaza was already in in a shit state, now polities are talking about suspending the aid many relied on.

yeh. and some rowing back on their statements eg EU appears to backpedal on freezing of Palestinian aid payments