Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
The situation is quite probably in the worst state it's been in for the last 70 years, professor. And it's geting worse.
How has "trying to understand it" been going?
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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The situation is quite probably in the worst state it's been in for the last 70 years, professor. And it's geting worse.
How has "trying to understand it" been going?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Did you discuss that one at the LSE too?
It hasn’t been going at all. Few are even trying to understand it. The whole situation has been dominated by a discourse of condemnation and, in particular, of pretending that it is a symmetric dispute rather than a piece of asymmetric settler-colonisation. That was the whole basis of the academic paper you so quickly dismissed many, many pages ago. You might want to give it a read after all.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what pre-teen 3-7 or pre-teen 8-13?
Ooh, you really don’t like having your arrogant put-down bluffs called, do you? Can’t cope with it at all.
You know that anybody can go to public talks at the LSE, right? Even you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
lse is proud to be the first higher education institution in the country to derive all its heating from the discussions of students
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I saw a young Israeli interviewed today. He was preparing to be conscripted. He cried saying all the people he knows just want to live in peace with their neighbours.
This is probably how many young Israelis truly feel.
But the likes of Netanyahu are very different.
Young people need to be the voice of reason in this situation. On both sides.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, it is the london school of economics and political science, not a school of arithmetic
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Is it so difficult? They are living a normal life, enjoying a rave. They are doing things their government prevents Palestinians from doing. Killing them sends the message that their lives aren't normal either. They have been pulled down to the Palestinians' level. They have been marked as fair game simply for being Israelis, yes. Just as the Israeli government has done for decades wrt Palestinians. Moshe Dayan, who sometimes expressed sympathy for Palestinians and their plight as a dispossessed people, made it very clear why Israel targetted civilians in reprisals. It was to undermine their support for the armed resistance.
I think there are a couple of things worth trying to understand here. One is Hamas and its goals and ideology. The other is the ordinary Palestinians who cheer when Hamas kills Israeli civilians. They're not just murderous fanatics. It is a message of despair from a position of desperation.
None of this need involve approval of the killings. Separating out Hamas from Palestinians who support Hamas helps to focus in on the particulars that may deserve condemnation and those that do not. And there will even be many Hamas fighters who should be separated out from their leadership.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
More bilge. You could fill the British Library with tomes and papers of scholars attempting to analyze and understand the conflict. You've just read one that suits you and are fraudulently promoting it as definitive.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Urm it's been your approach that has got things to this point. You get that right?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
My approach being what?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
To deny the importance (possibility?) Of understanding motivation and to simply see the other side as evil monsters.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
The battle for the narrative.
www.theguardian.com
US opinion divided amid battle for narrative over Hamas attack on Israel
Groups express opposing views over root cause of the attack, alongside differences over whether Gaza is still occupied
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
But this is an ultimate act of depravity. When you've reached the stage where you feel killing and raping your opponents kids is your only course of action, you've lost. It's time to throw-in your hand and either capitulate, or pursue less immoral means, regardless of how futile.
Unfortunately the bad guys sometimes win.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
everybody knows the war is over, everybody knows the good guys lost
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Both state and non state actors can commit both war crimes and terrorism. The bombing of Dresden is now widely acknowledged as a war crime and is also frequently cited as an example of 'terror bombing', at the very least a close cousin of terrorism.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the direction of murder squads by the british government in the six counties might be an example of state terrorism
the point you seem to fail to see is that it is no more depraved than the use of F16s to burn and bury alive entire populations in Gaza.The difference being the relative visibility of the recent actions of Hamas and the focus upon those actions of the Western Media.
PTK
Paul Kegan
No. “Terrorism” is defined as a violent action by a non-state actor, with the aim of changing the political dispensation. It is not defined by the nature of the target. It is not a term of moral condemnation.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
That's not a point lost on me, but Hamas don't have F16s and are never going to get them. Once again, nobody is attempting to justify the actions of Israel.
I say again; when you've reached the point that you think raping and killing kids is the only tactic left open to you, you've lost.
Unpalatable as it may be, playing terrorist Top Trumps with one of the most heavily armed and belligerant states on the planet is not going to go well for you or the people you purport to represent.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
There are limits to legality as the criterion for judging acts as war crimes. At Nuremberg, the USSR tried to bring charges against the commanders of German army that besieged Leningrad. "World at War" fans will remember how bad that siege was: but there was apparently, nothing in the laws of war against that kind of siege warfare, so the USSR couldn't make its indictment stick.
As for the current unpleasantness, the more I think about it, the more I think civilian casualties in Gaza could be comparable to Rwanda '94 by the time this is over.
As for the current unpleasantness, the more I think about it, the more I think civilian casualties in Gaza could be comparable to Rwanda '94 by the time this is over.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
The battle for the narrative.
US opinion divided amid battle for narrative over Hamas attack on Israel
Groups express opposing views over root cause of the attack, alongside differences over whether Gaza is still occupied
Harvard and other US institutions of the enlightened have a sketchy history when it comes to Jews. Where everyone else zigs, they zag.
The Nazi Sympathizers Who Ran American Universities
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Terrorism is what the other bloke does. Defence and deterrence is what we do.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
When provoked, obviously.
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