Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Mezzer]

Interesting development.

Western officials in protest over Israel Gaza policy

More than 800 officials in the US and Europe have penned a letter calling for more pressure on Israel.

www.bbc.com

 

[Gramsci]

This needs to be shared as well:

Thread by @LemkinInstitute on Thread Reader App

@LemkinInstitute: Following coordinated financial threats to UNRWA, and with grave concern, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention issues the following warning to several nations about their direct involvement...…

threadreaderapp.com

That is a very good read.

On stopping humanitarian aid like food. From the thread,

Beyond the deaths by bombing, sniper fire, chemical warfare, and autonomous weaponry, hunger dominates the Gaza Strip. This is not unique: weaponizing hunger is specifically envisioned by the Genocide Convention as a method and indicator of the Crime of Genocide. Raphael Lemkin, the ‘father of the Genocide Convention,’ was deeply concerned about the intentional use of starvation when he coined the term genocide and campaigned for a codification of genocide in international law. In his book Axis Rule in Occupied Europe, he included the Nazi official Generalfeldmarschall von Rundsted’s praise for policies of “organized underfeeding,” noting that von Rundsted observed to the Wehrmacht Academy that creating the conditions of starvation was “better than machine guns'' as a technique of annihilation.

I see from news not only is aid restricted but Zionists are trying to stop trucks delivery aid.

In WW2 the war on Eastern front was to include killing Jews. The Slavic population was to be starved and their farmland given to Germans with a few Slavs left as slave labour.

The war on Eastern front did not go all that well and the only place the "underfeeding" was tested was the siege of Leningrad. This I have read about.

Instead of taking the city the Germans attempted to cut it off and starve the population.

The Zionist are using the same techniques.

In fact the Israeli governments have had a blockade on Gaza for years. Which has gradually run it down

Lots of people depended on UNWRA because of this blockade. It was also a major employer. With the blockade job opportunities were limited. So UNWRA fulfilled a role - an important one. Given Israel as the occupying power dereliction of duty in this regard.

The Zionists having used UNWRA for decades to keep, at a bare minimum cost free aid ( for Israel) for the Palestinian refugees now see opportunity to get rid of UNWRA.

For Zionists UNWRA is no longer useful.

It , in their eyes, helps perpetuate the Palestinian refugee "problem"

Removing it from the picture will help to move to situation where once and for all the refugee "problem" will be solved. By a new form of the old Zionist idea of Population transfer.

Hopefully by other countries taking them.

 

[mojo pixy]

This assertion that Palestinians should stop being refugees and stop passing that status onto their descendants, when it comes from people born and raised in a country that was founded on the idea of reuniting a 2000-year-old diaspora, is incongruous and really truly bizarre.

 

[two sheds]

I was surprised that Sanders initially seemed not interested in what's happening to the Palestinians, he's stepping up now though, not that it will result in anything.

To End 'Nightmare' in Gaza, Sanders Moves to Block Funding for Israeli Weapons

"Twenty-seven thousand dead—two-thirds of them women and children," said the senator. "This is unacceptable."

www.commondreams.org

 

[tim]

This argument also supposes that somehow the crimes of the Nazis 'belong' to Jews more than anyone else. The systematisation of the Final Solution was indeed unique in its insanity, but the use of mass killing by the Nazis spread beyond Jews to other non-Aryans on a colossal scale. Extermination camps, concentration camps, slave labour, firing squads etc etc. Gypsies and Slavs, in particular, were deemed worthless and subhuman but anyone who opposed the Nazis was in the firing line, as well as the millions who were just in the wrong place in the wrong time.

None of that diminishes the attempt to exterminate the Jewish people, but Nazism was essentially a crime against all of humanity. It's still true that many comparisons between the actions of Israel are crass, and because of its misuse it's generally not a good idea to make the comparison too often. But it shouldn't be completely out of bounds.

The. Systematic dehumanisation and humiliation of Jews and their extermination was the central plank of Nazi policy from the very beginning. There was a clear difference in level and prioritisation of those crimes, which is why we saw the Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, Jews in occupied countries being taken from their homes and being confined in Ghettos, and the Wannsee Conference. "The Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" was a term coined by the Nazis and reflected their determination.

Because they were seen as an existential threat by the Nazis extermination of Jews was prioritised over that of the Roma and Sinti, who were the only other group who the Nazis sought to totally eliminate on racial grounds.

Other groups under occupation were not treated in the same absolute way, but will th a brutal indifference. The Nazis had no compunction about killing but they were equally happy to enslave and Aryanise. Jewish or Roma children, however blonde their hair or blue their eyes, where not kidnapped and sent to foster families to be turned into good Germans, they were gassed, starved, shot, and experimented on.

 

[tim]

Jewish wife and relatives! So wonder what that cunt of a prime minister's excuse is.

More of the antiSemitism that doesn't exist on the left.

 

[Serge Forward]

More of the antiSemitism that doesn't exist on the left.

That particular poster has made several anti semitic comments on here.

 

[inva]

More of the antiSemitism that doesn't exist on the left.

That poster is a Conservative voter.

 

[Gramsci]

Another march about to start

 

[Gramsci]

 

[tim]

That poster is a Conservative voter.

An antiSemite in the Daily Heil tradition, then.

 

[tim]

That particular poster has made several anti semitic comments on here.

But has escaped a ban.

 

[Serge Forward]

But has escaped a ban.

I didn't report the post. Dunno if you or anyone else has.

Eta: just reported a post on another thread.

 

[Gramsci]

Jewish section of march is big

 

[tim]

I didn't report the post. Dunno if you or anyone else has.

Eta: just reported a post on another thread.

I reported one on another thread.

 

[Gramsci]

This doesn't need any explanation

 

[teqniq]

https://www.el19digital.com/articulos/ver/titulo:148879-gobierno-de-nicaragua-impedir-y-detener-el-genocidio-en-palestina

 

[Gramsci]

Na'amood who were present at today's march were not allowed on recent march against anti semitism.

Due to their banners. When they said to police there are Israeli flags on the march the police said that's because it's a march against anti semitism and the viewpoint of Na'amood wasn't welcomed by organisers ( who includes CST)

March stewards behind police didn't intervene to say they were welcome

 

[Gramsci]

I think the numbers were down from previous marches.

I can understand that people feel ground down by lack of success in getting politicians to call for Ceasefire.

The two main parties have same policy on this.

If there was an election tomorrow I'd not vote. Can't be arsed to support their system.

 

[agricola]

I think the numbers were down from previous marches.

I can understand that people feel ground down by lack of success in getting politicians to call for Ceasefire.

The two main parties have same policy on this.

If there was an election tomorrow I'd not vote. Can't be arsed to support their system.

It was still a lot of people - I walked past the stage by Parliament Square and then saw what must have been the back of it going through Piccadilly Circus a while later. It was certainly a lot more than 20,000.

 

[Mezzer]

Find it very annoying that the media refer to these marches simply as 'pro Palestinian'. How about anti genocide/ethnic cleansing, maybe?

 

[Gramsci]

Perhaps not great idea in hindsight to be seen to be so chummy with the President whose remarks the ICJ quoted as problematic today in their ruling

To quote myself. An Update.

The President of Israel is now saying ICJ ruling is a "blood libel" He qualifies what he originally said in such a mealy mouth way. For him IDF do not target civilians. But he still stands by civilians supported Hamas.

So not clear to me what he is saying here. Its some fantasy world where IDF avoids civilian deaths.

I do question why members of the Labour party and Labour Friends of Israel ( who do not support a ceasefire) are seen being so friendly with this kind of Israeli politician,

Realistically they have to be engaged with.

But LFI crossed the line to supporting him and being in a photo opportunity which was uncritical

But when Corbyn did it he was heavily criticised.

If LFI do it nothing is said.

Here is the President of Israel justification for his comments the ICJ quoted:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-blood-libel-herzog-says-icj-twisted-my-words-to-support-unfounded-contention/

The very fact that the hearing at the court in The Hague was held on the eve of International Holocaust Memorial Day, to judge whether the democratic, moral and responsible State of Israel, which rose from the ashes of the Holocaust with the overwhelming support of the family of nations, and its institutions were guilty of committing genocide, is a blood libel that undermines the very values on which this court was established,” he said in sharp criticism of the ruling.

So he is saying ICJ does not apply to Israel as it is a special case.

Nice

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Find it very annoying that the media refer to these marches simply as 'pro Palestinian'. How about anti genocide/ethnic cleansing, maybe?

Quite a few sources refer to them as pro Hamas.

 

[8ball]

Quite a few sources refer to them as pro Hamas.

Non-extremist sources in this country?

(obv “extremist”’is a little subjective)

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Non-extremist sources in this country?

(obv “extremist”’is a little subjective)

When I say sources, I mean IG/tik-tok (?) video content makers. They end up in my Facebook feed. That said, could be "legitimate" media sources too.

 

[8ball]

When I say sources, I mean IG/tik-tok (?) video content makers. They end up in my Facebook feed. That said, could be "legitimate" media sources too.

Fair enough. Not seen it phrased that way myself.

 

[Gramsci]

I would not have said this before. But after months of the Israeli government and IDF onslaught on Gaza I now say that they are acting like the German Nazi army on the Eastern Front in WW2. Using starvation as a weapon of war.

This is Zionism in practise.

Zionism is a racist political ideology

 

[planetgeli]

Non-extremist sources in this country?

(obv “extremist”’is a little subjective)

Yeah. Let's not forget Suella Braverman used to call them hate marches when she was Home Sec.

 

[8ball]

Yeah. Let's not forget Suella Braverman used to call them hate marches when she was Home Sec.

I wasn’t counting her as a non-extremist source.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

The. Systematic dehumanisation and humiliation of Jews and their extermination was the central plank of Nazi policy from the very beginning. There was a clear difference in level and prioritisation of those crimes, which is why we saw the Nuremberg Laws, Kristallnacht, Jews in occupied countries being taken from their homes and being confined in Ghettos, and the Wannsee Conference. "The Final Solution to the Jewish Problem" was a term coined by the Nazis and reflected their determination.

Because they were seen as an existential threat by the Nazis extermination of Jews was prioritised over that of the Roma and Sinti, who were the only other group who the Nazis sought to totally eliminate on racial grounds.

Other groups under occupation were not treated in the same absolute way, but will th a brutal indifference. The Nazis had no compunction about killing but they were equally happy to enslave and Aryanise. Jewish or Roma children, however blonde their hair or blue their eyes, where not kidnapped and sent to foster families to be turned into good Germans, they were gassed, starved, shot, and experimented on.

The physical elimination of all Jews was not a central plank of Nazi policy from the beginning. If it was then it was never publicised. Antisemitism was a core feature of Nazism, sure, but it was only one feature. The first inmates of concentration camps were overwhelmingly communists, followed by socialists. The first people to be sterilised were the disabled. We all know the long list of groups who were discriminated against, persecuted, imprisoned, starved, enslaved, shot, gassed. Had the Nazis won I suspect that list would only have grown.
I'm in no way trying to minimise the atrocities of the Jewish Holocaust, but simply objecting to the way some would let Israel lay sole claim to victimhood at the hands of the Nazis. I suppose we could all agree never to compare anyone's behaviour or policies with those of Nazi Germany. But if we are not going to do that then we cannot single out Jewish people for sole exemption, otherwise that lets Israel, as the prime example, get away with policies which can be compared with Nazi Germany.