Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

Yes, indeed, but the point is not the UK is not actively trying to stop the slaughter in the Gaza Strip, it actively aiding it.

Yes I know

 

[Gramsci]

It is not because he is Jewish, it is because he expressed support for the war in the Gaza Strip.

"The teenager was recognised at the Jewish Achiever Awards and said: “I’m now the rising star, but the true rising stars are the young soldiers in Israel. And I’d like to dedicate it to the state of Israel and every single soldier fighting so that we can live and thrive in the diaspora.”"

South Africa under-19 cricket captain stood down over anti-war protest fears

Hosts South Africa have stripped skipper David Teeger of the captaincy for their Under-19 Cricket World Cup campaign amid fears he could be a target for anti-war protesters

www.theguardian.com

I'm not in principle keen on people losing their their jobs or being demoted due to their opinions.

I don't agree with his views. But they aren't imo reason to have him lose the captaincy of team

If the cricket authorities are concerned about demos at matches they might still happen as he's still in the squad.

 

[Gramsci]

And this works both ways.

In Israel people losing jobs and worse for not being fully behind the war effort

‘It is a time of witch hunts in Israel’: teacher held in solitary confinement for posting concern about Gaza deaths

Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public

www.theguardian.com

 

[teqniq]

Sick, certainly but also very spiteful. I guess they want people to lose all hope that anyone cares about them:

 

[Sue]

I despise what is happening in Gaza. But sport should be kept apart. We saw this in the 80s under apartheid with the rugby and cricket teams and that was disastrous.

I'm not sure if the nonsense you come out with on multiple threads is all your own work or influenced by the views of the people you work for/with, but you come across as a right fuckwit either way.

 

[PTK]

South Africa levels accusations of ‘genocidal conduct’ against Israel at UN Int'l Court of Justice​

United Nations video on Youtube. Full record of South African submission.

 

[YouSir]

I'm not in principle keen on people losing their their jobs or being demoted due to their opinions.

I don't agree with his views. But they aren't imo reason to have him lose the captaincy of team

If the cricket authorities are concerned about demos at matches they might still happen as he's still in the squad.

And this works both ways.

In Israel people losing jobs and worse for not being fully behind the war effort

‘It is a time of witch hunts in Israel’: teacher held in solitary confinement for posting concern about Gaza deaths

Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public

www.theguardian.com

Doesn't really work both ways, he's lost a position of privilege for extolling the virtues of a genocidal army, the other guy is being persecuted by an apartheid regime for suggesting that the people they're oppressing are actually humans after all. Bad things happening to bad people isn't the same as bad things happening to good ones. And there's absolutely no prize for those opposing Israel's actions not taking such actions against their vocal public supporters, Israel isn't going to shrug and go 'fair play, if South Africa doesn't mind open discourse then we'll be sure to stop locking up political dissidents'.

 

[YouSir]

Germany walking into the brick wall of their own history with their new 'a little bit of genocide is ok if you pretend it isn't happening' approach there. Unfortunate that Western powers have shown themselves to be so utterly and completely shameless really.

 

[teqniq]

'Unfortunate'. Yes, well that's one way of putting it. When I first heard that Germany were going to do this my initial thought was and still is: 'This isn't the good look that Germany thinks it is' and it also turns out they sell a lot of armaments to Israel. Not a good look either, and well here we are, Germany having their noses rubbed in their own history.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not in principle keen on people losing their their jobs or being demoted due to their opinions.

I don't agree with his views. But they aren't imo reason to have him lose the captaincy of team

If the cricket authorities are concerned about demos at matches they might still happen as he's still in the squad.

I agree generally, but in this instance, I can understand him losing the captaincy. SA has a particular history with Israel and has just been to a world court to call the Israeli army to account. Waxing lyrically about the bravery of Israeli soldiers right now was to say the least foolish for the captain of a national sports team in SA to do. It also comes in the context of SA cricket teams post-apartheid having been plagued by racist attitudes from white players within dressing rooms.

 

[Wilf]

margaret hodge, the paedos' friend ‘Margaret Hodge ‘sorry’ as council she led told to investigate Savile abuse allegations’ her religion is irrelevant, it's her politics and she's a vile creature for reasons relating to her time as leader of islington council

I'm at a Verukers/GBH gig and just seen someone who looks very much like MH. Fair play, coverts to anarchopunk always welcome.

 

[Gramsci]

Doesn't really work both ways, he's lost a position of privilege for extolling the virtues of a genocidal army, the other guy is being persecuted by an apartheid regime for suggesting that the people they're oppressing are actually humans after all. Bad things happening to bad people isn't the same as bad things happening to good ones. And there's absolutely no prize for those opposing Israel's actions not taking such actions against their vocal public supporters, Israel isn't going to shrug and go 'fair play, if South Africa doesn't mind open discourse then we'll be sure to stop locking up political dissidents'.

What Im saying is that I believe in free speech.

I object to what someone is saying but think they have the right to say it.

And not lose their "position of privilege"

So no I don't agree he should have been removed from being Captain.

If this is to happen then the authorities responsible should be honest about it. The cricket authorities in SA have said he is being relieved of being Captain due to concerns about public safety due to demos. They are not doing it due to what he said.

Its this kind of mealy mouthed way of dealing with things that gets my back up

Secondly ( to bring it closer to home) my local Council Lambeth ( run by Progress wing of party) decided to adopt the IHRA plus examples for not just Lambeth Labour but to cover all of Lambeth residents. It being a multi cultural borough and them thinking this is progressive. They did not consult anyone on this.

On my reading of the history of Israel. How it was founded and the ideas / actions of those who founded it/ the continuing actions of the Israeli state since then I think Israel state ( not all Israelis) is a racist endeavour. That puts me in the contravention of my areas Local Council policy on racism and anti semitism.

Given I have spend my time in Lambeth in local issues if my views became known it might cause me problems. I keep some views to myself. And it would certainly bar me from joining the party. I did ask once years ago. But as Im a local member of the "awkward squad" it was not met with enthusiasm so I didn't. Complaining about boring local issues does not make one popular.

So no I am not happy with this. I think people should be able to speak their mind.

To add the bombing of Gaza , given my reading of history of Zionism, in a way does not surprise me. Removing Palestinians was always part of Zionist State of Israel.

 

[ska invita]

Biden and Sunak, two lame Pms leaning into war hoping for a poll bounce? Could that be a factor?

 

[ska invita]

Biden and Sunak, two lame Pms leaning into war hoping for a poll bounce? Could that be a factor?

Right on cue

 

[teqniq]

Netenyahau frothing last night. Tl:dr. If the ICJ finds against them they're going to ignore it, who knew? Also Gaza murder tunnels with copies of Mein Kampf. Repeat the lie, repeat the lie. Iran and nuclear weapons nonononono! I tried scrolling down to see if there were any supporting replies and couldn't find one. Sure, there probably are but I didn't see any:

Thread by @IsraeliPM on Thread Reader App

@IsraeliPM: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, this evening: "Citizens of Israel, Today, we mark 100 days of the war, 100 days since the terrible day on which our citizens were massacred and taken hostage." facebook...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[teqniq]

Israel Plans Risky Mission to Seize Last Gaza Border It Doesn’t Control

From the Wall Street Journal, worth a read.

 

[nino_savatte]

I despise what is happening in Gaza. But sport should be kept apart. We saw this in the 80s under apartheid with the rugby and cricket teams and that was disastrous.

Sport is always political. People have opinions on teams and players. That makes it political.

 

[Pickman's model]

What Im saying is that I believe in free speech.

I object to what someone is saying but think they have the right to say it.

And not lose their "position of privilege"

So no I don't agree he should have been removed from being Captain.

If this is to happen then the authorities responsible should be honest about it. The cricket authorities in SA have said he is being relieved of being Captain due to concerns about public safety due to demos. They are not doing it due to what he said.

Its this kind of mealy mouthed way of dealing with things that gets my back up

Secondly ( to bring it closer to home) my local Council Lambeth ( run by Progress wing of party) decided to adopt the IHRA plus examples for not just Lambeth Labour but to cover all of Lambeth residents. It being a multi cultural borough and them thinking this is progressive. They did not consult anyone on this.

On my reading of the history of Israel. How it was founded and the ideas / actions of those who founded it/ the continuing actions of the Israeli state since then I think Israel state ( not all Israelis) is a racist endeavour. That puts me in the contravention of my areas Local Council policy on racism and anti semitism.

Given I have spend my time in Lambeth in local issues if my views became known it might cause me problems. I keep some views to myself. And it would certainly bar me from joining the party. I did ask once years ago. But as Im a local member of the "awkward squad" it was not met with enthusiasm so I didn't. Complaining about boring local issues does not make one popular.

So no I am not happy with this. I think people should be able to speak their mind.

To add the bombing of Gaza , given my reading of history of Zionism, in a way does not surprise me. Removing Palestinians was always part of Zionist State of Israel.

Do you think voltaire should have been able to speak publicly of his hatred of Jews?

 

[agricola]

Netenyahau frothing last night. Tl:dr. If the ICJ finds against them they're going to ignore it, who knew? Also Gaza murder tunnels with copies of Mein Kampf. Repeat the lie, repeat the lie. Iran and nuclear weapons nonononono! I tried scrolling down to see if there were any supporting replies and couldn't find one. Sure, there probably are but I didn't see any:

Thread by @IsraeliPM on Thread Reader App

@IsraeliPM: Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, this evening: "Citizens of Israel, Today, we mark 100 days of the war, 100 days since the terrible day on which our citizens were massacred and taken hostage." facebook...…

threadreaderapp.com

Hopefully such a rant means that the ICJ is very likely to find against them, at least in terms of an interim stop order.

Its also somewhat telling to make it so explicitly clear that the opinions and concerns of the Israeli government's allies are meaningless - in fact, in the case of the strongest ally of the Israeli government there is a demand to kick things off even more.

 

[agricola]

Sorry if this interview has been posted before, but I couldn't see it and thought it represents a very useful summary of why the South African case is so strong:

 

[Gramsci]

Do you think voltaire should have been able to speak publicly of his hatred of Jews?

I dont know about Voltaire.

Looking at what the ex Cricket Captain is reported to have said it does not cross the line of hate speech imo.

 

[agricola]

 

[tim]

Only slightly OT, but you have to wonder how many of current crop of politicians would have supported apartheid South Africa back in the day.

The fact that British politicians have rarely wavered in their Support of the Apartheid regime in Saudi Arabia gives you the answer to that.

 

[Wilf]

Yover just got every bit of this wrong. The lad was sacked for making political statements, not for being Jewish. And what, you actually think we should have sent sporting teams to apartheid

Edit, that was a reply to Petcha . Combination of train wifi and my idiocy fecking the quote up.

 

[PTK]

Yover just got every bit of this wrong. The lad was sacked for making political statements, not for being Jewish. And what, you actually think we should have sent sporting teams to apartheid SA?

It needs to be remembered that the South Africans objected to a "coloured" former resident of South Africa, who had become a British citizen, playing for the English team in South Africa.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sorry if this interview has been posted before, but I couldn't see it and thought it represents a very useful summary of why the South African case is so strong:

It's interesting that German state media would broadcast that. I haven't seen the BBC giving anyone like him that kind of platform.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It needs to be remembered that the South Africans objected to a "coloured" former resident of South Africa, who had become a British citizen, playing for the English team in South Africa.

Exactly. All sport in apartheid South Africa was political for the very simple reason that the highest-level national leagues and teams were all-white teams. The rebel West Indies team had to be given 'honorary white' status to stay in hotels ffs. Anyone breaking the boycott knew what they were doing. Fuck all of them (and there were far too many).

Being charitable, this kid has a simplistic view of the world that may reflect the fact that he's only a kid. Some pretty poisonous ideas circulate around certain circles of white people in SA, though, as we've seen from other cricketers' actions in the last two decades. Racism wasn't abolished in 1994.

 

[Elpenor]

Sport still political in South Africa - Mandela wearing the bok shirt, think there were some quotas for teams / squads (but not sure if now, rugby team seems very mixed and based on merit) and recently the first black rugby captain.

As a casual observer it does seem to be a uniting factor within the team / stadium.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There are still quotas in cricket. First black captain was appointed very recently. It's still very political and very contentious. This was a really stupid thing for a SA cricket captain to say.

 

[tim]

I despise what is happening in Gaza. But sport should be kept apart. We saw this in the 80s under apartheid with the rugby and cricket teams and that was disastrous.

Yes, the boycott certainly wasn't t good news for the murderous racists.