Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

The Republic of Albania is a European state backing the case brought to the ICJ by the Republic of South Africa.

Ah, missed that.

 

[PTK]

Ah, missed that.

They want to be careful; the EU may not let them join if they go round opposing genocide.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Biden lot official line is the the South African case is "meritless"

Biden administration have already decided the verdict.

Just awful, especially when the expectation is that decent folk should (and probably will have to) vote for Biden rather than Trump. You don't want to validate this cunt with a vote, but there isn't much of a choice.

 

[PTK]

The lovely Mark Regev is on the radio now, accusing South Africa of being aligned with Hamas. Israel continues to make a maximum effort to avoid civilian deaths. It could have ended this war in days if it had used all its power, but it said "no".

 

[SpookyFrank]

Point 1 really does fuck them, doesn't it? If you're going to commit genocide, don't talk about genocide.

I mean, no, but it'll be interesting to see what kind of truth-mangling the court comes up with to let Israel off the hook.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I mean, no, but it'll be interesting to see what kind of truth-mangling the court comes up with to let Israel off the hook.

tbh I have no way of calling this. The case is clear and obvious, and it was made very well, so only one decision is credible. Are they so totally corrupt and morally bankrupt that they won't make that judgement? We'll see, I guess. I don't know.

If they do find in favour of Israel, I think there will be some very ugly consequences, not least for any idea of international law.

 

[andysays]

Worse than that is Biden:

Ukraine:

Ukraine War: Biden accuses Russian troops of committing genocide in Ukraine

The US leader says President Putin is trying to "wipe out the idea" of a Ukrainian identity.

www.bbc.co.uk

Gaza:

Blinken calls genocide case against Israel ‘meritless’

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Tuesday denounced Israel being referred to the International Court of Justice (ICJ) for alleged genocide during its war in Gaza, calling the…

thehill.com

Biden lot official line is the the South African case is "meritless"

Biden administration have already decided the verdict.

Whether or not the case is meritless*, it appears to me that the IJC is essentially toothless, especially if the US maintains its support for (in this case) Israel.

* I have little doubt that the Israeli state continues to commit acts of genocide, but doesn't automatically mean a legal case can be won.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Yeh the first rule of genocide club is you don't talk of genocide club

Although they did take minutes at the Wannsee conference…

 

[Knotted]

Just awful, especially when the expectation is that decent folk should (and probably will have to) vote for Biden rather than Trump. You don't want to validate this cunt with a vote, but there isn't much of a choice.

Don't vote for genocide Joe.

 

[CH1]

The KC representing Israel at the International Court took the bull by the horns
Interesting profile: Professor Malcolm Shaw KC | Essex Court Chambers
According to Wikipedia he studied at Liverpool University, Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Keele University

The opening speaker from the Israeli government stated that the Genocide Laws were introduces as a promise to Israel of "never again" and finding against Israel now would mean international law is in disrepute.

KC Malcolm Shaw currently wittering on saying South Africa should but out of something not their business, but he set the scene by refering to the Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate to authenticate the Israeli state.

would prefer to watch this without the Al Jazeera split screen showing children, cooking pots tunnels and whatever else come into their minds.

 

[Pickman's model]

Although they did take minutes at the Wannsee conference…

the master criminal always makes one fatal error...

 

[Mezzer]

The KC representing Israel at the International Court took the bull by the horns
Interesting profile: Professor Malcolm Shaw KC | Essex Court Chambers
According to Wikipedia he studied at Liverpool University, Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Keele University

The opening speaker from the Israeli government stated that the Genocide Laws were introduces as a promise to Israel of "never again" and finding against Israel now would mean international law is in disrepute.

Sounds like he's been reading Animal Farm.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Shaw on now. He's hammering the intent line. I guess they think this is their strongest point. Total fantasy about the moral idf.

 

[Aladdin]

Shaw on now. He's hammering the intent line. I guess they think this is their strongest point. Total fantasy about the moral idf.

I hope he gets a few more fits of coughing...especially when the lies are outrageous

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The KC representing Israel at the International Court took the bull by the horns
Interesting profile: Professor Malcolm Shaw KC | Essex Court Chambers
According to Wikipedia he studied at Liverpool University, Hebrew University of Jerusalem and Keele University

The opening speaker from the Israeli government stated that the Genocide Laws were introduces as a promise to Israel of "never again" and finding against Israel now would mean international law is in disrepute.

KC Malcolm Shaw currently wittering on saying South Africa should but out of something not their business, but he set the scene by refering to the Balfour Declaration and the British Mandate to authenticate the Israeli state.

would prefer to watch this without the Al Jazeera split screen showing children, cooking pots tunnels and whatever else come into their minds.

You mean without also reporting on what is going on in Gaza? As they speak, people are dying. Whatever the death toll was when Shaw stood up to speak, it will be higher when he sits down again.

That is the context of these hearings.

 

[CH1]

You mean without also reporting on what is going on in Gaza? As they speak, people are dying. Whatever the death toll was when Shaw stood up to speak, it will be higher when he sits down again.

That is the context of these hearings.

South Africa did Gaza yesterday surely? Israel will presumably seek to minimise "collateral damage" in their actions.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bullshit bingo

7 October 7 October 7 October, with more to come, including video footage.

Moral idf, Israel a democracy

Self-defence

Minimising civilian casualties

Mention Holocaust

 

[Aladdin]

Where can this be watched in full? I had the BBC on but they're leaving it now.

 

[twistedAM]

Where can this be watched in full? I had the BBC on but they're leaving it now.

There's a QR code on the Sky News page for live coverage
ETA Al Jazeera seem to be showing it live (presumably with some interruptions)

 

[teqniq]

Interestingly neither Sky nor the BBC showed yesterday's proceedings live. Funny, that.

 

[nino_savatte]

Shaw on now. He's hammering the intent line. I guess they think this is their strongest point. Total fantasy about the moral idf.

"We drop leaflets". Not a great defence but oh so typical of Israeli exceptionalism.

 

[nino_savatte]

Apparently, Belgium supports South Africa's case.

Belgium pushed to be first EU country to join genocide case against Israel at the ICJ

'We must act against the threat of genocide,' says Deputy PM Petra de Sutter

www.thenationalnews.com

 

[nino_savatte]

The Republic of Albania is a European state backing the case brought to the ICJ by the Republic of South Africa.

See also Belgium.

 

[Aladdin]

There's a QR code on the Sky News page for live coverage
ETA Al Jazeera seem to be showing it live (presumably with some interruptions)

Thank you!

 

[Pickman's model]

Bullshit bingo

7 October 7 October 7 October, with more to come, including video footage.

Moral idf, Israel a democracy

Self-defence

Minimising civilian casualties

Mention Holocaust

have we had blood libel yet?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Just outright lies now. Blaming Hamas for civilian deaths, claiming not to have targeted hospitals. Brazen.

Sender, representing Israel at the hearing, claims that Israel “no doubt meets the legal test of concrete measures, aimed specifically at recognising and ensuring the rights of the Palestinian civilians in Gaza”.

Following on Al Jazeera, it looks like the most likely way Israel will wriggle out of this is by convincing the court it doesn't have jurisdiction. Has genocidal intent been proven? That appears to be the nub of the thing. The rest of Israel's case appears just to be waffle.

 

[nino_savatte]

Just outright lies now. Blaming Hamas for civilian deaths, claiming not to have targeted hospitals. Brazen.



Following on Al Jazeera, it looks like the most likely way Israel will wriggle out of this is by convincing the court it doesn't have jurisdiction. Has genocidal intent been proven? That appears to be the nub of the thing. The rest of Israel's case appears just to be waffle.

Israel is a member of the UN and is also a signatory to the ICJ, thus it has jurisdiction. If the ICJ orders Israel to stop its genocidal campaign and it refuses to do so, it won't reflect well on Israel or its colonialist supporters. However, could Israel be kicked out of the UN? Has the UN ever expelled a member?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Israel is a member of the UN and is also a signatory to the ICJ, thus it has jurisdiction. If the ICJ orders Israel to stop its genocidal campaign and it refuses to do so, it won't reflect well on Israel or its colonialist supporters. However, could Israel be kicked out of the UN? Has the UN ever expelled a member?

It doesn't have jurisdiction if genocidal intent has not been proven. That's their argument. Plus all the waffle about how humanitarian they are, need for self-defence, etc, but the genocidal intent argument appears to be key.

 

[nino_savatte]

It doesn't have jurisdiction if genocidal intent has not been proven. That's their argument. Plus all the waffle about how humanitarian they are, need for self-defence, etc, but the genocidal intent argument appears to be key.

There's plenty of evidence of genocidal intent online from government ministers to individual soldiers. None of it can be waved away a mere 'jocularities'.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

have we had blood libel yet?

They steered away from that. But they did start off with a statement concerning how this law only exists because of the Holocaust, so how dare they use it against them.