Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[teqniq]

At least someone is doing the right thing:

 

[The39thStep]

At least someone is doing the right thing:
View attachment 406327

View attachment 406326

South Africa were once described as 'as welcome as crabs ' on the Ukraine thread

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Radio 4 World At One, discussing the Russian missile attacks on Ukraine today: where is the “Russian Mark Regev” putting the Russian point of view? Why it is stated as unchallenged fact that the Russian Federation attacks civilian targets, when this would never be stated of the State of Israel?

Exactly!

 

[teqniq]

Israel predictably rejecting these proceedings but also accusing South Africa of 'blood libel' and also accusing them of collaborating with Hamas:

Middle East latest: US says 'too many Palestinians died today' after Israel denies it carried out strike on Gazans at aid delivery

An IDF spokesman calls the incident "unfortunate" after reports scores were killed, but says tanks were there to secure the area during an aid delivery. A "mob ambushed the truck," he adds. A US spokesman says "an acceptable number of innocent Palestinians dying is zero".

news.sky.com

 

[Pickman's model]

Israel predictably rejecting these proceedings but also accusing South Africa of 'blood libel' and also accusing them of collaborating with Hamas:

View attachment 406348

Middle East latest: US says 'too many Palestinians died today' after Israel denies it carried out strike on Gazans at aid delivery

An IDF spokesman calls the incident "unfortunate" after reports scores were killed, but says tanks were there to secure the area during an aid delivery. A "mob ambushed the truck," he adds. A US spokesman says "an acceptable number of innocent Palestinians dying is zero".

news.sky.com

The zionists could say - with rather more reason than Millwall fans - that no one likes them and they don't care. Wonder if they'll sing another tune should the court take up the case

 

[The39thStep]

Made me smile tbh

 

[8ball]

The zionists could say - with rather more reason than Millwall fans - that no one likes them and they don't care. Wonder if they'll sing another tune should the court take up the case

No, they do care - there’s just some distance to go yet to reach a threshold.

 

[agricola]

Israel predictably rejecting these proceedings but also accusing South Africa of 'blood libel' and also accusing them of collaborating with Hamas:

View attachment 406348

Middle East latest: US says 'too many Palestinians died today' after Israel denies it carried out strike on Gazans at aid delivery

An IDF spokesman calls the incident "unfortunate" after reports scores were killed, but says tanks were there to secure the area during an aid delivery. A "mob ambushed the truck," he adds. A US spokesman says "an acceptable number of innocent Palestinians dying is zero".

news.sky.com

Of the many stupid things that country's diplomatic representatives have done since October 7th, this continual description of anything they do not approve of as "blood libel" is one of the most self-defeating.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

The Biden administration pulling out all stops to ensure Israel can keep bombing.

Biden administration again bypasses Congress for weapons sale to Israel

Antony Blinken tells Congress he made second emergency determination covering $147.5m sale for equipment

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dogsauce]

I also think it's fair to question the Israeli version of how many people were killed by Hamas in the attack, like it's fair to question Hamas' versions of events, both in favour of independent assessments. Not to minimize the attack, but to get an accurate picture of what happened.

I’m still not clear if the 1200 (or is it 1400?) includes the 250 or so soldiers they say were killed on that day. Even if it doesn’t, it’s still a better ratio than the precision-targeting IDF by the sound of things.

(and no, this is no defence of Hamas, rather an example to show the shared inhumanity of their opponents)

 

[Dogsauce]

Of the many stupid things that country's diplomatic representatives have done since October 7th, this continual description of anything they do not approve of as "blood libel" is one of the most self-defeating.

They‘ve crywolfed ‘anti-semitism’ to death I guess, needed to step up to actually get anyone’s attention.

 

[Raheem]

Of the many stupid things that country's diplomatic representatives have done since October 7th, this continual description of anything they do not approve of as "blood libel" is one of the most self-defeating.

Not sure. I think it helps keep Western politicians in line.

 

[agricola]

Not sure. I think it helps keep Western politicians in line.

I don't think it does, at all.

For those friendly to Israel it is an unhelpful comparison (given that many people don't understand what it means), and for many of those hostile to Israel (and especially those hostile to Jews generally) it resurrects and strengthens all the old myths.

 

[8ball]

They‘ve crywolfed ‘anti-semitism’ to death I guess, needed to step up to actually get anyone’s attention.

A lot of false-flag anti-semitism going down.

 

[Dystopiary]

A baby was pulled alive from the rubble in Gaza. After an Israel airstrike.

Thank goodness people managed to get her out. Her mother and sister were killed. Her father and brother survived.

People used their hands to free Mariam Abu Akel from the debris, before a rescuer ran with her to a nearby hospital.

They had to use their hands.

Moment baby pulled alive from rubble after air strike on Gaza

 

[Dystopiary]

The head teacher of an Israeli high school faces suspension after she quoted a Haaretz article on her Facebook page, which criticised the lack of media coverage of the war on Gaza.

[Yael] Ayalon's post, which quoted a Haaretz article written last week in the Hebrew edition by Moran Sharir, said that "The average Israeli citizen relying on Channel 12 news isn't aware" of Gaza's humanitarian crisis.

Over 230 educators from across Israel have signed a petition in support of Ms Ayalon, saying that "it is her professional and moral duty to publicly express her opinions."

https://archive.ph/jqwFN (archived from Haaretz)

 

[teqniq]

The Biden administration pulling out all stops to ensure Israel can keep bombing.

Biden administration again bypasses Congress for weapons sale to Israel

Antony Blinken tells Congress he made second emergency determination covering $147.5m sale for equipment

www.theguardian.com

It occurs to me that, in light of the proceedings put forward to the ICJ by South Africa that the US will be lobbying behind the scenes for the ICJ to not take the case on. One of many reasons as to why they could be doing this is that if the ICJ do take the case on the US could well be considered an accessory to genocide.

 

[two sheds]

as might the UK

 

[Johnny Vodka]

It occurs to me that, in light of the proceedings put forward to the ICJ by South Africa that the US will be lobbying behind the scenes for the ICJ to not take the case on. One of many reasons as to why they could be doing this is that if the ICJ do take the case on the US could well be considered an accessory to genocide.

But... but... Sleepy Joe is telling the Israelis to take care not to target civilians.

 

[Mezzer]

Predictably Bolton has pitched in demanding more aggression.

The West may now have no option but to attack Iran

Tehran will only accept it has miscalculated if it faces significant costs for its recent acts of aggression

www.telegraph.co.uk

https://archive.ph/5541n

 

[nino_savatte]

The fact that the Israeli government regards South Africa's institution of proceedings against them with the ICJ as 'blood libel' is a mark of their desperation. Sadly, our government and the official "opposition" will go along with whatever the Israeli Ministry of Information says.

 

[8ball]

Not sure how serious a suggestion this is but just no, we can't just let things like either of these slide. I'm guilty of not challenging stuff on here as much as I think I should because I'm just not very good at it and don't have the time and energy most of the time. But we cannot say we cannot call out racism if we see it.

And I Don't know where the idea that the issue people have with this thread is the debate is too robust or whatever. I've never got that impression at all.

If anything it is the opposite, too much shit had been let go or even defended when challenged.

What I meant by “reasonable disclaimers”, was actual clear anti-semitic posts, or those in favour of wiping out any particular group of people (of course that shouldn’t ve left to slide).

As opposed to using that as a stick to beat someone you don’t happen to agree with.

I think Knotted said it better in terms of gauging our responses in a manner that might at least make things less draining.

 

[8ball]

The fact that the Israeli government regards South Africa's institution of proceedings against them with the ICJ as 'blood libel' is a mark of their desperation. Sadly, our government and the official "opposition" will go along with whatever the Israeli Ministry of Information says.

It’s really sad to see the term “blood libel” used cynically for naked political aims.

I also found it sad to see on this thread that pointing out the recent huge increase in anti-semitic activity in this country (as Stephen Fry did) is somehow unsupportable, though.

That particular sudden bubbling of bile towards Fry caught me by surprise. I ‘d like to think that was just the usual urban resentment towards the middle class and middle brow and not something more sinister.

Maybe it’s because I see Hamas as being the enemy of the Palestinian people and it’s unclear to what degree that’s a shared notion. I see references to “both sidesing” and it seems to me like there are more than two “sides” here.

I’m rambling - hoping for a lasting peace soon. There are a lot of people in the disputed territories and also in Israel who don’t want to be enemies.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It’s really sad to see the term “blood libel” used cynically for naked political aims.

I also found it sad to see on this thread that pointing out the recent huge increase in anti-semitic activity in this country (as Stephen Fry did) is somehow unsupportable, though.

That particular sudden bubbling of bile towards Fry caught me by surprise. I ‘d like to think that was just the usual urban resentment towards the middle class and middle brow and not something more sinister.

Maybe it’s because I see Hamas as being the enemy of the Palestinian people and it’s unclear to what degree that’s a shared notion. I see references to “both sidesing” and it seems to me like there are more than two “sides” here.

I’m rambling - hoping for a lasting peace soon. There are a lot of people in the disputed territories and also in Israel who don’t want to be enemies.

I must admit I said 'Fuck Stephen Fry' as more a general principle. Didn't actually listen to it, but I've heard him talking crap before. He's not someone I would go to for advice on, well, anything. So I may have misjudged it.

Having said that, I would have thought a more constructive approach at this particular moment in history, when given that kind of a privileged opportunity to speak, would be one that talks about the spikes in both antisemitism and islamophobia in the UK since 7 October. Talking about one without acknowledging the other feels unhelpful.

 

[PTK]

I must admit I said 'Fuck Stephen Fry' as more a general principle. Didn't actually listen to it, but I've heard him talking crap before. He's not someone I would go to for advice on, well, anything. So I may have misjudged it.

Having said that, I would have thought a more constructive approach at this particular moment in history, when given that kind of a privileged opportunity to speak, would be one that talks about the spikes in both antisemitism and islamophobia in the UK since 7 October. Talking about one without acknowledging the other feels unhelpful.

You have not actually listened to Stephen Fry's talk, yet you criticise it. That's not an approach based on reason, it is literally prejudice.

 

[8ball]

I must admit I said 'Fuck Stephen Fry' as more a general principle. Didn't actually listen to it, but I've heard him talking crap before. He's not someone I would go to for advice on, well, anything. So I may have misjudged it.

Having said that, I would have thought a more constructive approach at this particular moment in history, when given that kind of a privileged opportunity to speak, would be one that talks about the spikes in both antisemitism and islamophobia in the UK since 7 October. Talking about one without acknowledging the other feels unhelpful.

He didn’t just talk about one without the other, and he has been critical of the Israeli regime in the past, but yeah, fair to say that this time he was focused on the resurgence of anti-semitism.

Maybe it hasn’t been reported well, but I wasn’t quantitatively aware of the relative increase in Islamophobia, though it is hardly surprising that things would track on that side of things too.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

 

[_Russ_]

View attachment 406485What a happy bunch of killers

 

[TopCat]

It’s really sad to see the term “blood libel” used cynically for naked political aims.

I also found it sad to see on this thread that pointing out the recent huge increase in anti-semitic activity in this country (as Stephen Fry did) is somehow unsupportable, though.

That particular sudden bubbling of bile towards Fry caught me by surprise. I ‘d like to think that was just the usual urban resentment towards the middle class and middle brow and not something more sinister.

Maybe it’s because I see Hamas as being the enemy of the Palestinian people and it’s unclear to what degree that’s a shared notion. I see references to “both sidesing” and it seems to me like there are more than two “sides” here.

I’m rambling - hoping for a lasting peace soon. There are a lot of people in the disputed territories and also in Israel who don’t want to be enemies.

If you see Hamas as being the enemy of the Palestinian people rather than their most recently elected representatives then this will colour your view.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you see Hamas as being the enemy of the Palestinian people rather than their most recently elected representatives then this will colour your view.

The tory government are our most recently elected parliamentary representatives but they are not our friends.