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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

ska invita said:
Maybe im being too pessimistic but for me all hope is long gone. This is it
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Absurdly, the US are trumpeting this as a victory of US diplomacy. It's nothing of the sort. The deal has been on the table from Hamas for weeks and it's been brokered by Qatar. It's fuck all to do with the US. However, now that they have signalled that this is their doing, they're not going to be too happy if the slaughter starts up again next week. It won't make them look good.

That's perhaps one glimmer of optimism.
 
Had to look up Giles Fraser to see why we should care what screenings he's been invited to. He's assistant editor of Unherd. Unherd occasionally has interesting articles, but it's mostly horrible, and its coverage of the last month in Palestine has been despicable. Fuck Giles Fraser.
 
What does everyone think of the assertion that Hamas/ Iran committed the 7 October atrocities as they were shitting it over the possibility of a new peace process?

 
CH1 said:
What do people make of this one then?
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I don't think anyone's denying that Hamas operatives committed - and recorded - a huge number of atrocities in their attack on Israel, anybody who failed to be upset by a compilation of the most upsetting footage must have something seriously wrong with them.

But while there seem to be a lot of people horrified by the footage being shared by the IDF, I don't see as many people in the media acknowledging that the suffering on the other side has been far greater, or speaking about how shocked they are to see video evidence of it - footage from hospitals in Gaza is bad enough, the countless children and infants dying alone in the rubble of smashed buildings do not appear in any video but that doesn't mean they're not there.
 
Yossarian said:
I don't think anyone's denying that Hamas operatives committed - and recorded - a huge number of atrocities in their attack on Israel, anybody who failed to be upset by a compilation of the most upsetting footage must have something seriously wrong with them.

But while there seem to be a lot of people horrified by the footage being shared by the IDF, I don't see as many people in the media acknowledging that the suffering on the other side has been far greater, or speaking about how shocked they are to see video evidence of it - footage from hospitals in Gaza is bad enough, the countless children and infants dying alone in the rubble of smashed buildings do not appear in any video but that doesn't mean they're not there.
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That's the way that inbuilt inequality works. One British life is worth five Israeli lives; one Israeli life is worth ten Palestinian lives; and one Palestinian life is worth ten Sudanese lives
 
Yossarian said:
I don't think anyone's denying that Hamas operatives committed - and recorded - a huge number of atrocities in their attack on Israel, anybody who failed to be upset by a compilation of the most upsetting footage must have something seriously wrong with them.

But while there seem to be a lot of people horrified by the footage being shared by the IDF, I don't see as many people in the media acknowledging that the suffering on the other side has been far greater, or speaking about how shocked they are to see video evidence of it - footage from hospitals in Gaza is bad enough, the countless children and infants dying alone in the rubble of smashed buildings do not appear in any video but that doesn't mean they're not there.
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My particular spin on it is Giles Fraser - a vicar - is invited to, or seeks out even - a viewing of atrocities. Why? I wouldn't expect my vicar to be viewing IDF secret footage (Unless he was banned vicar Stephen Sizer).
I know he has recently discovered his Victorian Jewish heritage - but to me there is something odd about this man.
Giles seems to have a need to kill the thing he loves (to quote Oscar Wilde) Banned gay bishop to preach at CofE church days before Lambeth Conference
From that event when he was Vicar of Putney, and claiming to re-instate the Putney Debates he then moved on to being deeply embroiled in the Occupy controversy at St Pauls Cathedral Giles Fraser resignation: 'I couldn't face Dale Farm on the steps of St Paul's'
As someone pointed out up thread he is deputy editor of Unherd now - an outlet which purports to be Libertarian and is owned by Paul Marshall of GB News fame.
Actually Giles Fraser appears (currently) to be the polar opposite of Norman Finkelstein
 
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CH1 said:
My particular spin on it is Giles Fraser - a vicar - is invited to, or seeks out even - a viewing of atrocities. Why? I wouldn't expect my vicar to be viewing IDF secret footage (Unless he was banned vicar Stephen Sizer).
I know he has recently discovered his Victorian Jewish heritage - but to me there is something odd about this man.
Giles seems to have a need to kill the thing he loves (to quote Oscar Wilde) Banned gay bishop to preach at CofE church days before Lambeth Conference
From that event when he was Vicar of Putney, and claiming to re-instate the Putney Debates he then moved on to being deeply embroiled in the Occupy controversy at St Pauls Cathedral Giles Fraser resignation: 'I couldn't face Dale Farm on the steps of St Paul's'
As someone pointed out up thread he is deputy editor of Unherd now - an outlet which purports to be Libertarian and is owned by Paul Marshall of GB News fame.
Actually Giles Fraser appears (currently) to be the polar opposite of Norman Finkelstein
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he's ex-SWP as well. Funny old cove
 
teqniq said:
This has been a long time coming:

www.aljazeera.com

As Israel pounds Gaza, BBC journalists accuse broadcaster of bias

In the latest newsroom fallout over the war, BBC journalists say the corporation is failing to humanise Palestinians.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
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The problem with objective reporting on this and putting the context in is that Israel don't come out of it very well.

I've got most of my coverage from watching Al Jazeera. They have reporters on the spot. Some of whom have been killed or lost family members.

Watching Al Jazeera - a TV channel from that part of the world - and it's taken as a given that Israel was founded on expulsion of Palestinians. And that Palestinians have been subject to oppression and further loss of homes and land since 48. That Israel is occupying Palestinian land and people have a right to resist.

All above are factually correct.

People interviewed on Al Jazeera aren't continually being asked the "what about" questions.

Al Jazeera has some good commentators. I've seen them gradually got more quietly incensed with the double standard of West.

As the journalists letter says there appears to be a hierarchy of worth . With Ukrainian lives worth more than Palestinian.

In West ,for example, my MP refers to " humanitarian disaster" in Gaza but Hamas attack was terrorist.

Tbf to BBC it's been getting flack from both sides.

I certainly think in Europe and UK this present conflict has divided people like nothing I've seen for ages

Even Iraq war didn't cause division like this.
 
Gramsci said:
The problem with objective reporting on this and putting the context in is that Israel don't come out of it very well.

I've got most of my coverage from watching Al Jazeera. They have reporters on the spot. Some of whom have been killed or lost family members.

Watching Al Jazeera - a TV channel from that part of the world - and it's taken as a given that Israel was founded on expulsion of Palestinians. And that Palestinians have been subject to oppression and further loss of homes and land since 48. That Israel is occupying Palestinian land and people have a right to resist.

All above are factually correct.

People interviewed on Al Jazeera aren't continually being asked the "what about" questions.

Al Jazeera has some good commentators. I've seen them gradually got more quietly incensed with the double standard of West.

As the journalists letter says there appears to be a hierarchy of worth . With Ukrainian lives worth more than Palestinian.

In West ,for example, my MP refers to " humanitarian disaster" in Gaza but Hamas attack was terrorist.

Tbf to BBC it's been getting flack from both sides.

I certainly think in Europe and UK this present conflict has divided people like nothing I've seen for ages

Even Iraq war didn't cause division like this.
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How divided are people, though? I don't think there's been a poll since the last one in mid-October in which around three quarters of UK respondents supported calls for a ceasefire and less than 10 per cent opposed it. I would hope the number supporting a ceasefire would be even higher now.

Among elected politicians, the reverse is the case. A large majority in parliament opposed calls for a ceasefire last week (I take abstention in this case to mean opposition - it's not the equivalent of a poll option 'don't know') with only something like 20 per cent supporting it. And various media outlets, not least the state-owned one, have reflected this position rather than the position of a large majority of people. It's actually a sign of ways in which people's opinions aren't just passively shaped by the media.

There are clearly strong political forces in the US, UK, Germany and elsewhere that want this war. But it is not a popular war among their populations.
 
I am no fan of Disco Dave, but at least he's saying the right things here.

Lord Cameron has warned Israel that it will never be secure unless there is "long-term safety, security and stability" for the Palestinian people.
In his first full interview as foreign secretary, he welcomed Friday's pause in the fighting to get hostages out of Gaza and humanitarian aid in.
But he told the BBC that civilian casualties in Gaza were too high.
He also said that Israeli forces must abide by international humanitarian law.
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Lord Cameron urged Israel to crack down on what he called "completely unacceptable" violence by settlers in the occupied West Bank.
It was important for Israel to realise, he said, that "it must act in a way that delivers its long-term security" and he said that would ultimately depend on "Palestinians living in peace and stability and security in this land at the same time".
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www.bbc.co.uk

David Cameron warns Israel over Gaza civilian casualties

The foreign secretary tells Israel it will never be secure unless there is "security and stability" for the Palestinian people.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
teqniq said:
Yeah I just read that. Cameron to the left of Starmer on this, possibly appealing to thew Muslim vote in advance of the GE?
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I doubt Cameron has much interest in playing a strategic game for the next election. I'd see this as more about him establishing himself as an international statesman. My guess is that it's mostly sincere tbh. Occasionally politicians stumble upon sincerity, even tories.
 
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