Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Al Jazeera are reporting that a temporary truce in return for a hostage exchange is close.
A cynic would suggest that Israel is agreeing to this now because they've achieved some key objectives: making Gaza City uninhabitable, killing at least ten Palestinian civilians for every Israeli killed by Hamas. They were never going to stop before achieving these things.
So if this happens, what next?
A cynic would suggest that Israel is agreeing to this now because they've achieved some key objectives: making Gaza City uninhabitable, killing at least ten Palestinian civilians for every Israeli killed by Hamas. They were never going to stop before achieving these things.
So if this happens, what next?
teqniq
DisMembered
'Honest Reporting' makes unfounded accusations against a journalist and other colleagues that they had prior knowledge of the October 7th attacks, leading to death threats and then the IDF shells the journalist's home killing 8 members of his family. 'Honest Reporting' later accepted the allegations were unfounded and withdrew them. Scum.
www.reuters.com
Gaza strikes kill family members of journalist targeted by death threats
Deadly strikes hit the Gaza home of a news photographer days after an Israeli media advocacy group questioned his coverage of Hamas' Oct. 7, prompting death threats against him on social media.
ska invita
back on the other side
Presumably a few days pause, hostage exchange, then Israel carries on with its life work whilst Palestinians rot to death in the rubble and outside states fail to find a 'solution'
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They are continuing to target journalists and their families. Just one in a very long list of the things that are supposedly against International Law.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
They are continuing to target journalists and their families. Just one in a very long list of the things that are supposedly against International Law.
two more Lebanese journalists killed today
teqniq
DisMembered
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
When they go live to Khan Younis on Al Jazeera, you can see that the journalists there are traumatised and scared. But still they continue to report. Incredibly brave people.
Those 'press' clothes are supposed to give them protection. In reality, they are targets on their backs.
Those 'press' clothes are supposed to give them protection. In reality, they are targets on their backs.
Lurdan
old wave
Value criticism - Wikipedia is a reasonable starting point IMO. (Or these by this current's 'Guy Debord' figure - Reading Marx in the 21st century-Robert Kurz and Robert Kurz interviewed by Sonia Montaño). Best of luck. I think it's important to stress that while the anti-germans (the pillocks on that demo) may refer to 'value criticism', it's only in the same way that, for example, all sorts of weird currents quote bits of situationist or operaist thought to underpin their 'activism'. Value criticism isn't the 'intellectual key' to understanding them. IMO the 'anti-germans' are about as 'relevant' an indicator of attitudes towards the situation in Gaza as the Sparts and discussion of them seems more appropriate for a separate 'strange politicos do Gaza' thread.
ska invita
back on the other side
thanks i did have a go at the wiki but it didnt help me any
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Anti-deutsch are fucked in the head. I remember seeing urban's very own Laurie Penny speak in Halle - when I got to the hall, she hadn't even started her talk before some A-D dickhead was shouting and roaring at her.
I mean, Laurie Penny, come on. . .
ska invita
back on the other side
hadnt heard of these people - wiki seems good Anti-Germans (political current) - Wikipedia
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I can’t see the benefit to Hamas in agreeing to this. So am surprised to see reports that an agreement is close. I presume the IDF, having got the prisoners back, will up the ante of destruction.
Lurdan
old wave
Found an article which I thought was interesting when I bookmarked it a decade ago - The (anti-)German ideology: Towards a critique of anti-German “communism”. Other definitions of 'interesting' are available.
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
LMAO:
"Anti-German banner expressing support for Air Chief Marshal Arthur Harris who is associated with the area bombing of German cities"
They're not entirely dissimlar to the small minority of Western (inc Jewish) 'anti-Zionists' who support Hamas.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
New email from my MP Helen Hayes.
A long one explaining, well trying to, why she did not vote for the ceasefire SNP amendment ( she abstained) but voted for Labour amendment which fell short of ceasefire.
She acknowledges that words are important and she would be have preferred word Ceasefire.
She said she has had thousands of emails about this
She clearly feels under pressure from her constituents and the leadership of labour party.
I'm not convinced of her reasoning after reading the Labour amendment in full at end of her email.
Its talking about pauses which should be lengthened. Not a ceasefire.
Here is the email. Long and convoluted. She is a minister. Imo she should have voted for the SNP ceasefire and been done with it.
Sounds to me this email has been written because she's getting criticism for what she did
My highlights in bold
I am writing to you because you have contacted me recently about the horrific situation in the Middle East. I have received thousands of emails in recent weeks on this topic and my small team and I are working hard to respond to everyone as quickly as possible.
I want a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas as soon as possible. The images we are seeing on our TV screens are utterly horrific and the appalling violence must end. I called for a ceasefire publicly in my speech in the House of Commons on 15th November which you can watch here. But the question of how a ceasefire can be achieved and which measures can most quickly achieve relief for people living in Gaza is important.
Last week there were two votes in Parliament on the conflict in the Middle East - a Labour amendment to the King's speech and an amendment from the SNP. I abstained on the SNP amendment, which did not mention the need for a long-term political solution to the crisis or the two-state solution which is required for peace to be durable and for stability to be established in the region. I voted for Labour's amendment, which called for:
I have included the full text of Labour’s amendment at the bottom of this email. I have been clear that the Labour amendment did not go as far as I would have liked and that it should have included the word 'ceasefire'. I have been making that case clearly within the Labour Party at the most senior levels and I am continuing to make the case that our position should be to call for a ceasefire. Words are important and I believe 'ceasefire' is the word that has come to embody our collective heart-cry for the violence to stop.
But I must also be clear that abstaining on the SNP amendment and voting for Labour's amendment was not, as some have been arguing, a vote in favour of the violence continuing. It was a vote for an 'enduring cessation of fighting as soon as possible'. It is possible to debate the difference between this phrase and 'ceasefire', but there should be no doubt that everyone who voted for Labour's amendment believes that the current situation in Gaza is abhorrent and unacceptable and that the violence must end as soon as possible.
I know that some constituents are disappointed by my vote. I share your profound distress about the horrific situation in Gaza, and I feel intense frustration that neither amendment before the House of Commons this week had the power to change anything on the ground in Gaza. Neither amendment had the support of the Conservative Party, without which there is no possibility of any vote in the House of Commons being won. I gave very careful consideration to the SNP amendment. If I had thought for a moment that voting for it would save even one life in Gaza, I would have done so in a heartbeat.
I have also spoken in the House of Commons Chamber about the heart-breaking images of babies in Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza in makeshift incubators because of the lack of fuel. You can watch this intervention here.
I will continue to represent the views of my constituents in Dulwich and West Norwood that there must be a bilateral humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza involving the release of all hostages, as soon as possible, leading to an internationally brokered peace process and a two state solution in which a sovereign state of Palestine can live peacefully alongside a safe and secure Israel.
With best wishes,
Yours sincerely,
Helen
Helen Hayes MP
Member of Parliament for Dulwich and West Norwood
The Labour party amendment:
At end add ‘and submit to Your Majesty that this House wishes to see an end to the violence in Israel and Palestine;
unequivocally condemn the horrific terrorist attack and murder of civilians by Hamas, call for the immediate release of all hostages and reaffirm Israel’s right to defend its citizens from terrorism; believe all human life is equal and that there has been too much suffering, including far too many deaths of innocent civilians and children, over the past month in Gaza;
reaffirm the UK’s commitment to the rules-based international order, international humanitarian law and the jurisdiction of the ICC to address the conduct of all parties in Gaza and Hamas’s attacks in Israel;
call on Israel to protect hospitals and lift the siege conditions allowing food, water, electricity, medicine and fuel into Gaza;
request the Government continue to work with the international community to prevent a wider escalation of the conflict in the region, guarantee that people in Gaza who are forced to flee during this conflict can return to their homes and seek an end to the expansion of illegal settlements and settler violence in the West Bank;
and, while acknowledging the daily humanitarian pauses to allow in aid and the movement of civilians, believe they must be longer to deliver humanitarian assistance on a scale that begins to meet the desperate needs of the people of Gaza, which is a necessary step to an enduring cessation of fighting as soon as possible and a credible, diplomatic and political process to deliver the lasting peace of a two-state solution.’
A long one explaining, well trying to, why she did not vote for the ceasefire SNP amendment ( she abstained) but voted for Labour amendment which fell short of ceasefire.
She acknowledges that words are important and she would be have preferred word Ceasefire.
She said she has had thousands of emails about this
She clearly feels under pressure from her constituents and the leadership of labour party.
I'm not convinced of her reasoning after reading the Labour amendment in full at end of her email.
Its talking about pauses which should be lengthened. Not a ceasefire.
Here is the email. Long and convoluted. She is a minister. Imo she should have voted for the SNP ceasefire and been done with it.
Sounds to me this email has been written because she's getting criticism for what she did
My highlights in bold
I am writing to you because you have contacted me recently about the horrific situation in the Middle East. I have received thousands of emails in recent weeks on this topic and my small team and I are working hard to respond to everyone as quickly as possible.
I want a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas as soon as possible. The images we are seeing on our TV screens are utterly horrific and the appalling violence must end. I called for a ceasefire publicly in my speech in the House of Commons on 15th November which you can watch here. But the question of how a ceasefire can be achieved and which measures can most quickly achieve relief for people living in Gaza is important.
Last week there were two votes in Parliament on the conflict in the Middle East - a Labour amendment to the King's speech and an amendment from the SNP. I abstained on the SNP amendment, which did not mention the need for a long-term political solution to the crisis or the two-state solution which is required for peace to be durable and for stability to be established in the region. I voted for Labour's amendment, which called for:
- An enduring cessation of fighting as soon as possible
- Israel to protect hospitals and lift the siege of Gaza allowing vital aid including food, water, fuel and medicines to reach people in desperate need
- The International Criminal Court to address the conduct of all parties in Gaza including the Israeli Defence Force and Hamas's attack in Israel
- The immediate release of hostages held by Hamas
- The right of return to be guaranteed to Palestinians who have been displaced from their homes in Gaza
- An end to the expansion of illegal settlements and settler violence in the West Bank
- A credible diplomatic and political process to deliver the lasting peace of a two state solution
I have included the full text of Labour’s amendment at the bottom of this email. I have been clear that the Labour amendment did not go as far as I would have liked and that it should have included the word 'ceasefire'. I have been making that case clearly within the Labour Party at the most senior levels and I am continuing to make the case that our position should be to call for a ceasefire. Words are important and I believe 'ceasefire' is the word that has come to embody our collective heart-cry for the violence to stop.
But I must also be clear that abstaining on the SNP amendment and voting for Labour's amendment was not, as some have been arguing, a vote in favour of the violence continuing. It was a vote for an 'enduring cessation of fighting as soon as possible'. It is possible to debate the difference between this phrase and 'ceasefire', but there should be no doubt that everyone who voted for Labour's amendment believes that the current situation in Gaza is abhorrent and unacceptable and that the violence must end as soon as possible.
I know that some constituents are disappointed by my vote. I share your profound distress about the horrific situation in Gaza, and I feel intense frustration that neither amendment before the House of Commons this week had the power to change anything on the ground in Gaza. Neither amendment had the support of the Conservative Party, without which there is no possibility of any vote in the House of Commons being won. I gave very careful consideration to the SNP amendment. If I had thought for a moment that voting for it would save even one life in Gaza, I would have done so in a heartbeat.
I have also spoken in the House of Commons Chamber about the heart-breaking images of babies in Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza in makeshift incubators because of the lack of fuel. You can watch this intervention here.
I will continue to represent the views of my constituents in Dulwich and West Norwood that there must be a bilateral humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza involving the release of all hostages, as soon as possible, leading to an internationally brokered peace process and a two state solution in which a sovereign state of Palestine can live peacefully alongside a safe and secure Israel.
With best wishes,
Yours sincerely,
Helen
Helen Hayes MP
Member of Parliament for Dulwich and West Norwood
The Labour party amendment:
At end add ‘and submit to Your Majesty that this House wishes to see an end to the violence in Israel and Palestine;
unequivocally condemn the horrific terrorist attack and murder of civilians by Hamas, call for the immediate release of all hostages and reaffirm Israel’s right to defend its citizens from terrorism; believe all human life is equal and that there has been too much suffering, including far too many deaths of innocent civilians and children, over the past month in Gaza;
reaffirm the UK’s commitment to the rules-based international order, international humanitarian law and the jurisdiction of the ICC to address the conduct of all parties in Gaza and Hamas’s attacks in Israel;
call on Israel to protect hospitals and lift the siege conditions allowing food, water, electricity, medicine and fuel into Gaza;
request the Government continue to work with the international community to prevent a wider escalation of the conflict in the region, guarantee that people in Gaza who are forced to flee during this conflict can return to their homes and seek an end to the expansion of illegal settlements and settler violence in the West Bank;
and, while acknowledging the daily humanitarian pauses to allow in aid and the movement of civilians, believe they must be longer to deliver humanitarian assistance on a scale that begins to meet the desperate needs of the people of Gaza, which is a necessary step to an enduring cessation of fighting as soon as possible and a credible, diplomatic and political process to deliver the lasting peace of a two-state solution.’
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Fucking coward. 'my vote didn't matter anyway'
Interesting wording for the fantasy two state solution. Israel to be safe and secure, but that courtesy isn't extended to Palestine.
I'm getting pissed off now with Labour politicians parroting the two state solution line. The mp for Bradford who resigned from the front bench and spoke at the last march came out with it as well. His speech had been good up to that point.
Interesting wording for the fantasy two state solution. Israel to be safe and secure, but that courtesy isn't extended to Palestine.
I'm getting pissed off now with Labour politicians parroting the two state solution line. The mp for Bradford who resigned from the front bench and spoke at the last march came out with it as well. His speech had been good up to that point.
PTK
Paul Kegan
It is worth looking at the website of the Palestinian news agency, WAFA.
Dozens killed and injured in Israeli bombing of homes and schools housing displaced people in Gaza Strip
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Thinking about Hayes a bit more, her letter is revealing, both psychologically and ideologically, in ways she probably doesn't realise.
Psychologically, the idea that her vote didn't matter either way is clearly a coping mechanism to allow her to sleep at night.
Ideologically, it is even more revealing, however. I cannot make a difference. She is unable to imagine herself as part of a Ceasefire Now collective in which we can make a difference.
Psychologically, the idea that her vote didn't matter either way is clearly a coping mechanism to allow her to sleep at night.
Ideologically, it is even more revealing, however. I cannot make a difference. She is unable to imagine herself as part of a Ceasefire Now collective in which we can make a difference.
teqniq
DisMembered
3 doctors killed 2 MSF doctors and 1 other: 
www.msf.org
MSF doctors killed in strike on Al-Awda hospital in northern Gaza | Palestine | MSF
MSF is devastated by the killing of three doctors, including two working with MSF, following a strike on Al-Awda hospital in northern Gaza, Palestine.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Helen Hayes words in email are,
Agree with your post. Went back and had another look at the email.
Yes she says she:
She contradicts herself in her email. Reading it again and yes the email now comes across to me as the email is all about her. Its an email written as a coping mechanism to herself.
And the vote was not about whether it would save one life. It was a symbolic vote. People in Palestine are following what is happening internationally. As BBC reporter said recently.
Agree with your post. Went back and had another look at the email.
Yes she says she:
She contradicts herself in her email. Reading it again and yes the email now comes across to me as the email is all about her. Its an email written as a coping mechanism to herself.
And the vote was not about whether it would save one life. It was a symbolic vote. People in Palestine are following what is happening internationally. As BBC reporter said recently.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
I get the impression its very possible…
teqniq
DisMembered
Euro-Med Monitor to UN: Recognise Israel’s actions in Gaza as genocide
Euro-Med Monitor to UN: Recognise Israel’s actions in Gaza as genocide
Let that sink in...
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
He isn't larping, he's a bona fide idiot.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The other thing she probably dimly realises is that this was a test. An easy test with an obvious correct answer. But there are no resits.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
A deal has bee agreed, although Sky is reporting that any Israeli has 24 hours to raise an objection in the courts. They are also reporting that the ceasefire would be extended by one day for every additional 10 hostages that are released.
www.theguardian.com
Gaza hostage deal: what do we know?
What has been agreed between Israel and Hamas, why has a deal been reached now, how many hostages will be freed, and what happens next?
Similar threads
