Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[The39thStep]

The October Declaration

The October Declaration – British Friends of Israel

The October Declaration signatories stand in support of British Jews and condemn acts of antisemitism. We unequivocally condemn the terrorist attack in Israel on 7 October 2023. We ask the media to call Hamas what it is: a terrorist organisation.

britishfriendsofisrael.org

 

[Pickman's model]

The October Declaration

The October Declaration – British Friends of Israel

The October Declaration signatories stand in support of British Jews and condemn acts of antisemitism. We unequivocally condemn the terrorist attack in Israel on 7 October 2023. We ask the media to call Hamas what it is: a terrorist organisation.

britishfriendsofisrael.org

The zionist attack on gaza meets most common definitions of terrorism

 

[CH1]

The October Declaration

The October Declaration – British Friends of Israel

The October Declaration signatories stand in support of British Jews and condemn acts of antisemitism. We unequivocally condemn the terrorist attack in Israel on 7 October 2023. We ask the media to call Hamas what it is: a terrorist organisation.

britishfriendsofisrael.org

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

The zionist attack on gaza meets most common definitions of terrorism

I wonder why they don't mention that at all.

 

[The39thStep]

Surely there must be some on here who agree with their statement?

 

[Raheem]

Surely there must be some on here who agree with their statement?

I can see several people like it so much they linked to it in their posts.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Signed.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Similar to Bloody Sunday, these war crimes will likely catalyse paramilitary recruitment in Palestine and beyond for years to come.

 

[Yossarian]

I don't remember ISIS members being described as terrorists instead of militants or fighters with any regularity

 

[teqniq]

This appears to be real:

 

[Yetman]

Not Liz Truss again!! Thought she'd fucked off into whatever little warren she'd emerged from before she shat all over the economy and out-May'd May with being utterly utterly shit at fucking everything? Excuse the expletives but if anyone deserves it...

 

[PTK]

.

 

[PTK]

The October Declaration

The October Declaration – British Friends of Israel

The October Declaration signatories stand in support of British Jews and condemn acts of antisemitism. We unequivocally condemn the terrorist attack in Israel on 7 October 2023. We ask the media to call Hamas what it is: a terrorist organisation.

britishfriendsofisrael.org

I can think of three states in which a person who has been involved in a terrorist organisation has been elected as President: South Africa, Brazil, and Uruguay. Whether someone or not is a terrorist is not the issue: the issue is whether the acts in which they engage are justified. “Terrorist” is not a swear word, it is a description of violent action by a non-state actor with a view to effecting political change.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I can think of three states in which a person who has been involved in a terrorist organisation has been elected as President: South Africa, Brazil, and Uruguay. Whether someone or not is a terrorist is not the issue: the issue is whether the acts in which they engage are justified. “Terrorist” is not a swear word, it is a description of violent action by a non-state actor with a view to effecting political change.

And Israel, of course.

 

[PTK]

This is a disgrace

Fears for thousands of Gazans missing in Israel as workers ‘rounded up, arrested and blindfolded’​

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Kid_Eternity]

It’s starting to feel very Mcarthyesque with all these demands to stand with one side over the other. The last time I remember anything like this kind of division was Brexit…but this feels different, bigger somehow..(I’m talking about the U.K. specifically)?

 

[Raheem]

This is a disgrace

Fears for thousands of Gazans missing in Israel as workers ‘rounded up, arrested and blindfolded’​

MSN

www.msn.com

What's also a disgrace is how far down you have to scroll to get to that story on the Independent website.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

The October Declaration

The October Declaration – British Friends of Israel

The October Declaration signatories stand in support of British Jews and condemn acts of antisemitism. We unequivocally condemn the terrorist attack in Israel on 7 October 2023. We ask the media to call Hamas what it is: a terrorist organisation.

britishfriendsofisrael.org

I stopped counting the numbers of Barones, Baronesses Lords Earls and Viscounts after a while…

 

[Larry O'Hara]

And Israel, of course.

I guess you meanMenachem Begin and the Irgun hanging of two British soldiers? Though many would see this as irrelevant given it happened before 7/10/23…

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I guess you meanMenachem Begin and the Irgun hanging of two British soldiers? Though many would see this as irrelevant given it happened before 7/10/23…

I was thinking of Herzog Snr, who was president rather than prime minister. But Begin was officially considered a terrorist by the British government for many years and he became prime minister. He's also a good, clear-cut example. President in Israel is a mostly ceremonial post, after all, although they do get trotted out to present the latest piece of ludicrous fabricated propaganda, as we've seen with Herzog Jnr.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Britain and France aren't really colonial powers anymore though. The only external power that has any weight to it is the good ol' USA and that (odd call for restraint notwithstanding) remains unashamedly pro-Israel. I wouldn't want to detract from Rishi Sevenbins from being anything other than a weasly little cunt but realistically for Western European nations this has brought the current realities of the world into sharp focus. The only two positions that can be taken is to broadly support the US position (whilst pretending we're adding our own spin) or just being completely irrelevant.

Like, as in agree that that's their approach.

I think Sunak and Starmer (and Emily Thornberry, Shadow Attorney General, also (like Starmer) a former human rights lawyer) are both reprehensible for not also calling out and condemning Israeli war crimes and humanitarian rights abuses similarly to the way they've condemned Hamas' despicably brutal attack.

Lots of people, not least those in the British-Palestinian, British-Arab, British-Asian and wider British-Muslim ummah (community) note the hierarchy of racism and Othering of Palestinians by many British politicians, who are vocal in their support of Israel's right to defend itself, not so vocal in their support of Gazans basic human rights to water, food and shelter.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I think "Israelis" is a bit wide of the mark, the problem is with the political leadership and its instability.

The first communique probably was negotiated by sensible people - it was only a freeze for a few months after all - and had the PM's approval, but when the far right heard about it they went mad, and as the government collapses without them it was torn up before the day was out.

Agree. The Israeli government ≠ all Israeli people, just as Hamas ≠ all Palestinian people.

Maybe the antagonists should have an old fashioned duel or an MMA fight and leave the majority of people on both sides, who want to live in peace, to do just that.

 

[Raheem]

.

 

[Knotted]

This appears to be real:

Odd little moment there at the end of the clip where one of the women shakes her captor's hand. I'm going to avoid drawing broader conclusions but it's clear that guy at least treated them well. I found that quite touching in the middle of all of this.

 

[platinumsage]

I think Sunak and Starmer (and Emily Thornberry, Shadow Attorney General, also (like Starmer) a former human rights lawyer) are both reprehensible for not also calling out and condemning Israeli war crimes and humanitarian rights abuses similarly to the way they've condemned Hamas' despicably brutal attack.

There’s lots of talk about Israeli war crimes, but it seems disputable whether they have committed any or not - it will require close monitoring and an investigation. Hamas however have indisputably committed war crimes. So it’s not really surprising that many politicians are reserving their condemnation of Israeli war crimes at this stage, and instead warning them to be careful not to commit such crimes. A good summary here:

Experts on how the laws of war apply to Hamas and the Israeli military

More than a century of international conventions and treaties are designed to protect civilians from war crimes.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Odd little moment there at the end of the clip where one of the women shakes her captor's hand. I'm going to avoid drawing broader conclusions but it's clear that guy at least treated them well. I found that quite touching in the middle of all of this.

Lovely fellahs, eh?

 

[Ax^]

There’s lots of talk about Israeli war crimes, but it seems disputable whether they have committed any or not - it will require close monitoring and an investigation. Hamas however have indisputably committed war crimes. So it’s not really surprising that many politicians are reserving their condemnation of Israeli war crimes at this stage, and instead warning them to be careful not to commit such crimes. A good summary here:

Experts on how the laws of war apply to Hamas and the Israeli military

More than a century of international conventions and treaties are designed to protect civilians from war crimes.

www.nbcnews.com

*cough *

Collective Punishment​

International humanitarian law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is also forbidden, whether in the case of prisoners of war or of any other individuals (GCIII Art. 87, API Art. 75.2.d, APII Art. 4.2.b). This is one of the fundamental guarantees established by the 1949 Geneva Conventions and their 1977 Additional Protocols. This guarantee is applicable not only to protected persons but to all individuals, no matter what their status or to what category of persons they belong, as defined by the Geneva Conventions (GCIV Art. 33).

Collective punishment is prohibited, based on the fact that criminal responsibility can be attributed only to individuals. Respect for this principle can be ensured solely by establishing guarantees that protect judicial procedures. This principle must also be monitored in the context of disciplinary

 

[Knotted]

Lovely fellahs, eh?

I can see why you would assume otherwise. I think we make a lot of assumptions about the mentality of Hamas ops. Fanatics driven by hatred etc.

 

[platinumsage]

*cough *

Yes you’re obviously not a war crimes expert.

 

[Knotted]

There’s lots of talk about Israeli war crimes, but it seems disputable whether they have committed any or not - it will require close monitoring and an investigation. Hamas however have indisputably committed war crimes. So it’s not really surprising that many politicians are reserving their condemnation of Israeli war crimes at this stage, and instead warning them to be careful not to commit such crimes. A good summary here:

Experts on how the laws of war apply to Hamas and the Israeli military

More than a century of international conventions and treaties are designed to protect civilians from war crimes.

www.nbcnews.com

They don't mention the order to leave northern Gaza and hospitals in particular and they don't make the obvious conclusion that the switching off of supplies has driven the enclave to humanitarian disaster. The thing with Israeli war crimes is that they're most probably in the more severe category of crimes against humanity being as they are based on collective punishment. Even the Goldstone Report on Cast Lead (2008-9) said Israel had committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity. What is happening now is at least an order of magnitude worse.