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Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza

I wouldn't go so far as to label Yesh Atid as the pro peace party. They are the "ignore the Palestinian conflict and hope it goes away" party. They represent the maturing of the middle class protests of last year and represent the same deliberate strategy of completely ignoring the occupation and focussing on domestic economic and social justice issues. Their leader Yair Lipid has consciously avoided any substantial mention of the conflict.
I don't think they're the peace party, but from reports I've read, it seems one of the reasons they did well is that people want them to push for peace. And considering that Netanyahu may have hoped for a Falklands effect, this is a quite sharp move in the other direction.
 
I don't think they're the peace party, but from reports I've read, it seems one of the reasons they did well is that people want them to push for peace. And considering that Netanyahu may have hoped for a Falklands effect, this is a quite sharp move in the other direction.
I think that's optimistic. I think people want him to ignore the conflict. Its not the same thing. They want to hide the Palestinians behind walls and checkpoints and pretend Tel Aviv is Europe.

I'm also not sure what his position is on the conflict which itself says a lot. He has hardly mentioned it but what he has said is still pretty hawkish. He is on record as saying that Jerusalem is non negotiable for example which puts him to the right of Ehud Barak.

Don't get me wrong. I think its a good thing that the hard right didn't do as well as we feared but I think we should bear in mind that centrist in Israel is still pretty fucking right wing by our standards
 
I think that's optimistic. I think people want him to ignore the conflict. Its not the same thing. They want to hide the Palestinians behind walls and checkpoints and pretend Tel Aviv is Europe.
Well, if they want that, then they'll have to settle in some way in order to end conflict. Regarding this new politician's formal policies, they don't matter so much for my analysis. The main fact is that an Israeli premier tried to ride the war train to success, and instead fell off. That means something for the future possibility of mass assaults on the Palestinians. I hope it is a sign that the structure of support for this kind of offensive policy is crumbling away.
 
Well, if they want that, then they'll have to settle in some way in order to end conflict. Regarding this new politician's formal policies, they don't matter so much for my analysis. The main fact is that an Israeli premier tried to ride the war train to success, and instead fell off. That means something for the future possibility of mass assaults on the Palestinians. I hope it is a sign that the structure of support for this kind of offensive policy is crumbling away.
Yes, a shift to the rabid right was rejected. I agree that this is something
 
Well, if they want that, then they'll have to settle in some way in order to end conflict. Regarding this new politician's formal policies, they don't matter so much for my analysis. The main fact is that an Israeli premier tried to ride the war train to success, and instead fell off. That means something for the future possibility of mass assaults on the Palestinians. I hope it is a sign that the structure of support for this kind of offensive policy is crumbling away.
let's see what happens next xmas then
 
Here is a taste of his views on the Palestinians


Yair Lapid, the head of the Yesh Atid party, explained Sunday that he has no expectations from negotiations with the Arabs.
"I do not think that the Arabs want peace," he wrote on his Facebook page.

Lapid said that he does not care what the Arabs want. "What I want is not a new Middle East, but to be rid of them and put a tall fence between us and them." The important thing, he added, is "to maintain a Jewish majority in the Land of Israel."

Lapid has said recently that the Left "makes the same mistake again when it negotiates the division of Jerusalem."
"The Palestinians must be brought to an understanding that Jerusalem will always remain under Israeli sovereignty and that there is no point for them in opening negotiations about Jerusalem."

He added that the Arabs have already understood that Israel will not allow the "right of return" – by which the Arabs refer to a plan for flooding Israel with Arabs – and have given up on that demand. "We need to be clear about Jerusalem as well and then they will understand that this is our solid position."

"We have no existence without Jerusalem," Lapid added. "The Tower of David is important for Israel's heritage and existence, because it is more than a tower, it is a symbol. It is more important than the Azrieli Towers," he said – a reference to a well-known group of high-rise buildings in Tel Aviv.

And this is one of the moderates! :eek:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164389#.UQD5oB197Ns
 
People reading this thread may be interested to know that i got this yesterday from the MRJ, looks like cracks are beginning to form in the mainstream jewish organisations' stance on zionism

http://news.reformjudaism.org.uk/pr...-zionist-federations-rejection-of-yachad.html


Following a vote on Monday, the Zionist Federation(ZF) has refused to accept Yachad as an affiliate member. Yachad is a grassroots pro-Israel, pro-peace organisation. The Movement for Reform Judaism supports the work of the ZF as the united body of British Jewish communities in support of Israel. However, we strongly disagree with the exclusion of Yachad, an organisation actively reflecting the will of UK Jewry for a two state solution.
Like Yachad we are unequivocally Zionist. We have a non-negotiable commitment to the State of Israel and its security. We believe that the pursuit of peace is the highest ideal and priority. We are deeply committed to democracy; human rights and social justice; and religious pluralism. We are committed to two viable states as the only just and realistic solution to the present situation. You can find out more about Yachad’s core principles here.

The ZF has shown itself to be out of touch. 78% of British Jews support a two state solution; the exclusion of Yachad reflects negatively on ZF’s view of Zionism.
If you agree, please contact the Chair and the National Council of the Zionist Federation to express your concerns. Email office@zfuk.org or write to Box 1948 116 Ballards Lane London N3 2DN.


yachad describe themselves as "pro israel and pro peace", they are soft leftist liberals in favour of a two state solutions, despite describing themselves as pro Israel and zionist they have taken part in anti government demonstrations in Israel and unlike the right wing zionist "birthright" programmes their trips to israel for young jews actually go out of the way to show people the impact on palestinians live. they have also been involved in campaigns such as women praying at the western wall which the israeli police have been arresting people for

they might not be as anti zionist as some people would like, but i think it is nonetheless very significant that an organisation like MRJ who a few years ago was issuing statements on its website in full support of operation cast lead and the like, has been forced to the left by its members
 
they might not be as anti zionist as some people would like, but i think it is nonetheless very significant that an organisation like MRJ who a few years ago was issuing statements on its website in full support of operation cast lead and the like, has been forced to the left by its members
Is there really any contradiction there? Wouldn't the MRJ still step up to support Israel in the event of another similar assault? Presumably one major reason they support Yachad is because they want the greatest possible Israeli and zionist unity?
 
Is there really any contradiction there? Wouldn't the MRJ still step up to support Israel in the event of another similar assault? Presumably one major reason they support Yachad is because they want the greatest possible Israeli and zionist unity?

Possibly. Although last time this happened the support was a lot more lukewarm. The thing is they've been having their own beefs with the Israeli government on the women praying at the wall thing (because the israeli police have started arresting women for praying there and for wearing tallits and other religious items), some of their rabbis have iirc got into trouble over there and been involved in protests about it. They are keen to be seen to defend religious rights in Israel especially because it's their organisation over there that has been affected over this stuff. They actually even organised protests at the Israeli embassy about it.
 
Might be getting a bit too optimistic there, dunno! Although I do know that a couple of reform rabbis are signed up to JFJFP, I don't think their views are that representative tho.
 
[quote="frogwoman, post: 12018402, member: 251]unlike the right wing zionist "birthright" programmes their trips to israel for young jews actually go out of the way to show people the impact on palestinians live. [/quote]

How do they do that?
 
The thing about groups that have a "non-negotiable commitment to the State of Israel and its security" is that they will always take seriously government claims about Hizbollah and Hamas wanting to push Israel into the sea, and so tend to support IDF attacks as "reactions" to terrorists.
 
The thing about groups that have a "non-negotiable commitment to the State of Israel and its security" is that they will always take seriously government claims about Hizbollah and Hamas wanting to push Israel into the sea, and so tend to support IDF attacks as "reactions" to terrorists.
rather than the 'terrorists'' actions being in response to the past 65 years of zionist activity.
 
The thing about groups that have a "non-negotiable commitment to the State of Israel and its security" is that they will always take seriously government claims about Hizbollah and Hamas wanting to push Israel into the sea, and so tend to support IDF attacks as "reactions" to terrorists.

Yeah but it's quite significant that they're not rejecting them over this for example.

We are campaigning to prevent the demolition of the Palestinian village of Susiya

During June 2012, the Civil Administration informed the inhabitants of Palestinian Susiya in Area C of the West Bank of its intention to carry out six demolition orders that were issued in the 1990s and in 2001 (we regularly visit and meet with the residents of Susiya on our trips). These orders apply to most of the area of Susiya and relate to some fifty buildings, including residential buildings, animal pens, solar energy panels and water cisterns (Palestinian Susiya, like most of the villages in the South Hebron Hills, is not connected to the electricity and water grid). These orders add to numerous similar orders that were issued to Susya recently and have been issued despite the fact that the land in question is private land belonging to the Palestinian inhabitants of Susiya.
For more information about Susiya click here.
Get involved:
1) Join the international facebook campaign 'I stand with Susiya'. Take a photo of yourself holding a sign 'I stand with Susiya' and upload it to the facebook page.
2) Write to the Israeli ambassador to the UK Daniel Taub expressing your concern that the demolitions are scheduled to take place. The address to send the letter to is:
HE Ambassador Daniel Taub
Embassy of Israel
2 Palace Green
London W8 4QB


I dunno mate, you could be right but I want to be optimsitic I really do
 
[quote="frogwoman, post: 12018402, member: 251]unlike the right wing zionist "birthright" programmes their trips to israel for young jews actually go out of the way to show people the impact on palestinians live.

How do they do that?[/quote]
There are lots of major Palestinian groups and politicians, especially in the West Bank, who also want a two state solution and are interested in working with pro-Israeli peace groups.
 
Yeah I mean they're hardly going to launch a revolutionary struggle against zionism or something but I just think it is significant that MRJ etc have been pushed into making these types of statements, I really want to be optimistic about it
 
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