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Israel warns of Gaza 'holocaust'

But they can't leave can they? Where can they go? If they can get out of Gaza they've got nowhere to live and no welfare.

A terrible situation indeed. They can't get out and are trapped with the violent nutters of Hamas.

What can be done?

Assassinate the Hamas leadership
Ground invasion
Multinational ground invasion
Block by block bombing
Giving Hamas one last chance of abiding by ceasefire
Mass intensive shelling of Gaza
Attempt negotiation (but carry a big stick)
More international peace talks
Creation of a 'middle east EU' of Jordan Israel and Palestine

Whatever is done will have a negative outcome somewhere along the line.

So many options but all have the chance of failure with tragic consequences.
 
That's it. Blame the cellmate rather than the jailer.

Anyway, 'they' elected Hamas, and to suggest there is no political debate or demonstrations within Gaza is untrue

The people of Dagenham democratically elected 11 BNP councillors it might be democratic but it doesn't make it right.
 
FFS Hamas go for a ceasefire and Israel take the steps to accept it to see if it works.


generally the ceasefires have ended because it is perceived that israel still treats them as an enemy. which is because the ceasefire is perceived as not having really ended. which is because of continued israeli agression. which is because of continued palestinian agression.

basically there are only three reasonable solutions.

1. create a palestinian state, autonomous and free and leave them to it. this is unlikely to work because most of the raw materials and economic strength of palestine is in israeli hands. it is likely therefore that the palestinians will blame all the problems creating a nation state out of nothing on israel, and the situation will continue.

2. complete enfrancisement for palestinians as equal citizens involving paying reparations and providing living space and giving them an equal and fair say in running a united state - enfrancishment tends to end conflicts pretty quickly. unlikely to happen because the jewish israelis are scared of what will happen; much anger amongst palestinians and risk of democratised revenge; no politician would get support for it.

3. Kill or ghettoise all the Palestinians and ignore their pitiful attacks on Israel whilst using them as a further excuse to pursue the agenda. Downsides are that this may draw internation approbrium but the upsides are that no-one can stop you as you're a nuclear power and america is on your side.
 
A terrible situation indeed. They can't get out and are trapped with the violent nutters of Hamas.

What can be done?

Assassinate the Hamas leadership
Ground invasion
Multinational ground invasion
Block by block bombing
Giving Hamas one last chance of abiding by ceasefire
Mass intensive shelling of Gaza
Attempt negotiation (but carry a big stick)
More international peace talks
Creation of a 'middle east EU' of Jordan Israel and Palestine

Whatever is done will have a negative outcome somewhere along the line.

So many options but all have the chance of failure with tragic consequences.
Why do all your solutions put the blame on the victim? Why no addressing the root problem? You've got a nerve calling me bigoted
 
fuck hamas, this isn't about them, they're a bunch of cunts anyway who are only too keen to capitalise on this ... but israel has created them

this shower in the israeli government make me ashamed to be jewish. and they claim to speak for all israelis do they? It's funny how pretty much the only support the scum find is in the diaspora, especially the US and the right wing "jewish" media - no party ever manages to find itself an absolute majority in the knesset and there are more political parties than one can count, that's how this piece of shit gets a voice, because the threshold required to gain a seat in the knesset is something like 1% - so 1% of the vote and bingo - this scumbag gets elected.

most of israel's elections get held two or three years earlier than they should because the government routinely fails to agree on anything or becomes unpopular due to scandals, corruption, or failure to protect its citizens. much of this guy's support will be coming from recent immigrants who really did experience anti-semitism - the most right-wing party at the moment in Israel is largely supported by Jews from Russia. :(

yes, they are victims as much as perpetrators, but they are most of all the victims of their own government and it's policies.

you cant excuse the inexcusable and what these cunts that call themselves jews are doing in palestine now is absolutely inexcusable. i understand why they're doing it, and i understand the fact that many jews around the world have become radicalised by an increased anti-semitism after 9/11. but you can't use this to treat innocent people in this manner. it is not right and has nothing to do with religion.

It never will and it never has.

the fact that the worthless cunt stands as a repesentative of the jewish people means that he is insulting god and insulting everyone who died in the war and every other jew in the world who died because of people like him, who weren't jewish but had his exact same mentality in every other respect. the jews are meant to be the chosen people - does this nazi piece of shit actually understand what that really means? It means that they are SUPPOSED TO BEHAVE IN THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY. to obey the ten commandments, one of these is "Do not murder." Something that they flagarantly disobey every day and worse, get other people, ordinary israelis, to do their dirty work for them.

how the fuck do these scum sleep at night, is what i want to know. how do they face themselves every day, knowing they are lying to the country all the time, and allowing torture, collective punishments, and other crimes? And pretending to justify it on the basis that they're doing the best thing for the Jewish people - by trying to justify the same policies in the name of "protection" that were perpetrated on us?

i dont consider this cunt a jew ... you cannot be a jew, and support fascism and not even try to hide it at the same time ... it is not possible ...
 
A terrible situation indeed. They can't get out and are trapped with the violent nutters of Hamas.

What can be done?

Assassinate the Hamas leadership
Ground invasion
Multinational ground invasion
Block by block bombing
Giving Hamas one last chance of abiding by ceasefire
Mass intensive shelling of Gaza
Attempt negotiation (but carry a big stick)
More international peace talks
Creation of a 'middle east EU' of Jordan Israel and Palestine

Whatever is done will have a negative outcome somewhere along the line.

So many options but all have the chance of failure with tragic consequences.

sorry mate but your "solutions" are not going to solve anything, but make it worse ... risks attracting the condemnation of the international world and even the alienation of israels allies ... and you think hamas is bad ... have you thought about how the "intensive shelling" of gaza will play among the population? what will happen once they've had a bit of time to think about what has happened - you think they'll start liking the Israelis again and seeing them as their saviours? It didnt work in serbia or iraq and it certainly wont work here ... "strategic bombing" Isnt the way to make people in a country magically be your friend ...

these israeli politicians are not living in the real world, where their actions actually affect people, they dont seem to care any more.
 
BBC are backtracking (changed their headline):

The BBC must have got a major bollocking from somewhere over this story. I read it when it was first posted and the headline mentioned 'holocaust' and the story was going on about Israel launching a 'holocaust' on Gaza. It was quickly re-written and now 'holocaust' gets little mention.

I can just imagine the Israeli media monitors spitting their coffee over their screens when they saw the headline.
 
You don't believe that Israel has a right to exist.

He hasn't said that.
He's VERY clearly stated that he doesn't accept the state of Israel as presently constituted, which is a different thing entirely.
Most anti-Zionist Jews have been making the same points as Spion for nigh on 50 years: That you can't construct a state on expropriated land and expect stability. That the state of Israel should, at the very least, return to the "green line" territories, and at best to it's mandated territories.
 
A terrible situation indeed. They can't get out and are trapped with the violent nutters of Hamas.

What can be done?

Assassinate the Hamas leadership
Ground invasion
Multinational ground invasion
Block by block bombing
Giving Hamas one last chance of abiding by ceasefire
Mass intensive shelling of Gaza
Attempt negotiation (but carry a big stick)
More international peace talks
Creation of a 'middle east EU' of Jordan Israel and Palestine

Whatever is done will have a negative outcome somewhere along the line.

So many options but all have the chance of failure with tragic consequences.

Odd how it's often those who've never had to look down the barrel of a gun (from either end) who favour violent solutions.
 
these israeli politicians are not living in the real world, where their actions actually affect people, they dont seem to care any more.
Israel's leaders and most of those of the pre-state Yishuv never cared about the Arab population. The whole move to colonise and form a new Israel has been in large part a nasty racist venture from the start.

“If the Arabs leave it, the country will become wide and spacious for us . . . The only solution is a land of Israel, at least a western land of Israel, without Arabs. There is no room here for compromises . . . There is no way but to transfer all the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries, to transfer them all, save perhaps for Bethlehem, Nazareth and old Jerusalem. Not one village must be left, not one tribe. The transfer must be directed at Iraq, Syria and even Transjordan. For this goal funds will be found . . . And only after this transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers and the Jewish problem will cease to exist. There is no other solution.” 20 Dec 1940. Weitz (leading member of the JA’s Transfer Committee 1937-38), My diary, II, 181
 
The BBC must have got a major bollocking from somewhere over this story. I read it when it was first posted and the headline mentioned 'holocaust' and the story was going on about Israel launching a 'holocaust' on Gaza. It was quickly re-written and now 'holocaust' gets little mention.

I can just imagine the Israeli media monitors spitting their coffee over their screens when they saw the headline.

That's what i thought ... :mad:
 
This is what happened in Gaza last night and Israel expects to be able to live in peace. LMFAO.

"Gaza's citizens were kept awake for another night by the sounds of Israeli military aircraft and missile strikes.

On one occasion, a house east of the Jabaliya refugee camp was struck - two children, a brother and sister, were killed.

Two more civilians, a father and his 19-year-old son, died in an airstrike outside their home.

Later, a 15-year-old girl and her 16-year-old sister were also killed."

Link to story
 
This is what happened in Gaza last night and Israel expects to be able to live in peace. LMFAO.

"Gaza's citizens were kept awake for another night by the sounds of Israeli military aircraft and missile strikes.

On one occasion, a house east of the Jabaliya refugee camp was struck - two children, a brother and sister, were killed.

Two more civilians, a father and his 19-year-old son, died in an airstrike outside their home.

Later, a 15-year-old girl and her 16-year-old sister were also killed."

Link to story

Tough shit really, the people of Gaza elect Hamas, Hamas rockets Israel, Israel responds.

No rockets, no reprisals.
 
Nah ... one person was killed by rockets, a few others injured, and this is just a "reprisal"??

Sorry mate but thats like someone shoving u in a queue and you taking out a hammer and hitting them over the head ... :mad:
 
Nah ... one person was killed by rockets, a few others injured, and this is just a "reprisal"??

But that could be based upon the unreliability of the rockets being fired or the people firing them, surely the intent is still there?

I'm not backing Israel here but there's some truths in what Sass is saying.
 
of coruse the intent is there, but the key is proprotionality ...

I agree entirely! But the story of David and Goliath is an apt parable here which maybe Israel needs to take heed to. Or maybe it already is?

When it comes to war, proportionality isn't an issue. Of course, there's international laws when it comes to warfare but some people are more culpable than others. My position on the middle east is that they're both as bad as each other. If both are intent on seeing conflict as the answer, as it clearly isn't, there's little luck in saying who is the greater evil in the whole scheme of things.
 
I agree entirely! But the story of David and Goliath is an apt parable here which maybe Israel needs to take heed to. Or maybe it already is?

When it comes to war, proportionality isn't an issue. Of course, there's international laws when it comes to warfare but some people are more culpable than others. My position on the middle east is that they're both as bad as each other. If both are intent on seeing conflict as the answer, as it clearly isn't, there's little luck in saying who is the greater evil in the whole scheme of things.

i agree ... but its quite clear what is happening here ... 46 palestinians killed today, in response to a 47 year old Israeli man

disgusting.

Im sorry but this is the exact same thing that Saddam, Slobbo, and countless other dictators have done ...
 
i agree ... but its quite clear what is happening here ... 46 palestinians killed today, in response to a 47 year old Israeli man

disgusting.

Im sorry but this is the exact same thing that Saddam, Slobbo, and countless other dictators have done ...

Like I said, although I don't want to take sides while both are intent on warfare, Israel has a track record of over-reacting like they did in the Lebanon. But if it's an American client state, it is expected of it to be the biggest bully in the playground and thus, to synchronise harsh foreign policies. Much like the UK does.
 
A Palestinian-Israeli joint intitiative

of coruse the intent is there, but the key is proprotionality ...

The cycle of violence and bloodshed goes on and on, and the threat of an overall invasion and re-conquest of the Gaza Strip is openly and repeatedly made by the Israeli military and political leaders - with the cost estimated at hundreds or thousands of casualties.

We, the undersigned - Israelis and Palestinians - do not accept this grim reality as inevitable. There is a clear and obvious alternative to bloody escalation and strangulating siege, an alternative providing hope: an end to the siege of Gaza, and a ceasefire and cessation of all hostilities.

The siege of Gaza and the collective punishment of its population are totally unacceptable. It is a medieval form of war which is in utter contradiction to the present norms of human rights and international law - which Israel, as an occupying power, is bound to respect. There should be an immediate end to the siege, unconnected with any other issue, and the Gaza Strip must have free access to the outside world, for the free passage of persons and goods.

It has already been clearly seen that the suffering inflicted on Palestinian civilians in Gaza did not and cannot solve the problem of Sderot. The only solution is a complete and mutual ceasefire, an end to all armed attacks by the Israeli occupation on Palestinians, including all shootings by infantry, tanks, artillery, aircraft and gunboats, and all targeted killings, armed incursions and arrests across the border, and an end to launching of rockets by Palestinians on Israelis. In addition, this should involve a reopening of the prisoners issue, starting with negotiations on the exchange of Israeli soldier Gilead Shalit with Palestinian prisoners.

We regard such a ceasefire as an entirely realistic, achievable and desirable act, which would save lives, alleviate misery and create better conditions for any attempt to achieve peace between the two peoples - while understanding that no long-lasting solution is possible while the Palestinians in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem continue to live under occupation.
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=25490
 
Israeli strikes in Gaza leave 45 Palestinians dead
The Israeli army maintained the raid was a routine incursion that did not represent a change in policy, but the possibility of a bigger military invasion is expected to be discussed at the regular Israeli Cabinet meeting tomorrow.

Pressure is also growing inside Israel to negotiate with Hamas for a ceasefire, a tactic so far shunned by Israeli leaders who condemn the organisation which seized control of Gaza last summer as a terrorist group.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/03/01/wisrael101.xml

Sixty-four percent of Israelis say the government must hold direct talks with the Hamas government in Gaza toward a cease-fire and the release of captive soldier Gilad Shalit. Less than one-third (28 percent) still opposes such talks.

The figures were obtained in a Haaretz-Dialog poll conducted Tuesday under the supervision of Professor Camil Fuchs of Tel Aviv University.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/958473.html

Eli Moyal said:
"The reporter asked me what I would be willing to due for the residents of Sderot in order to stop this situation, and I answered that, as a citizen, and in order to defend the lives of Sderot residents, I would be willing to go anywhere and talks to Hamas, and with the devil himself.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/957089.html

For months now, Efraim Halevy has been calling for talks with Hamas
August 2007 said:
Halevy expressed doubts about the US strategy of trying to prop up Abbas and isolate Hamas, calling it "political fantasy." He called for Israel to negotiate a long-term truce with Hamas, something the movement has already offered. Halevy, the Journal reported, "is part of a small band of public figures who now say that, because of Hamas's growing clout, it is becoming impossible to avoid such a dialogue. Former Secretary of State Colin Powell joined the group in a recent interview with National Public Radio."
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article7160.shtml

February 20 2008 said:
In researching the story I had a conversation with Efraim Halevy, former head of the Israeli Mossad, who endorsed the idea of talks between his country and Hamas. Now Laura Rozen of Mother Jones has published a terrific interview with Halevy, in which he lays out his thinking. Halevy told Rozen:
Efraim Halevy said:
Hamas has, unfortunately, demonstrated that they are more credible and effective as a political force inside Palestinian society than Fatah, the movement founded by [former Palestinian Authority president] Yassir Arafat, which is now more than ever discredited as weak, enormously corrupt and politically inept. [Hamas has] pulled off three ‘feats’ in recent years in conditions of great adversity. They won the general elections to the Palestinian Legislative Council in 2006; they preempted a Fatah design to wrest control of Gaza from them in 2007; and they broke out of a virtual siege that Israel imposed upon them in January 2008. In each case, they affected a strategic surprise upon all other players in the region and upon the United States, and in each case, no effective counter strategy mounted by the U.S. and Israel proved effective.
When Rozen asked Halevy whether Hamas should be required to recognize Israel’s right to exist before talks were held, he replied:
Halevy said:
“Israel has been successful in inflicting very serious losses upon Hamas in both Gaza and the West Bank and this has certainly had an effect on Hamas, who are now trying to get a ‘cease fire.’ But this has not cowed them into submission and into accepting the three-point diktat that the international community has presented to them: to recognize Israel’s right to exist; to honor all previous commitments of the Palestinian Authority; and to prevent all acts of violence against Israel and Israelis. The last two conditions are, without doubt, sine qua non. The first demands an a priori renunciation of ideology before contact is made. Such a demand has never been made before either to an Arab state or to the Palestinian Liberation Organization/Fatah. There is logic in the Hamas’ position that ideological ‘conversion’ is the endgame and not the first move in a negotiation.”
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2008/02/hbc-90002456
 
I wonder what would happen if anyone would use such words with regards to Israelis.
The Western media & quite some others would fall over themselves to make it headlines for months and keep repeating it for years to come and not a tiny amount of Jews who ever gets a bad word would once again start crying about "rise of anti-semitism".

And this is not about words, is it. This is about the ongoing situation, is has only be given its right name for once.

salaam.
 
The whole thing is a disaster - a shoah - a nakba.

The politicians, the war-men, the fighters, the thievers - they seem to be on the winning side while ordinary people and their kids are losing their lives - in Israel you can't really choose whether or not to be militarised - if you refuse, you get imprisoned.

I know the majority of ordinary people on both sides want peace, but their leaders are just a bunch of betraying bastards.

I feel very powerless and very very very angry.
 
Yes it's depressing, isn't it. No need though to feel personal responsible for what can't be changed but by some miracle.

salaam.
 
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