littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A certain poster joined in 2002. Never banned, though. Maybe thought a fresh start with a new name would be just the ticket after one barney too many.
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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
There's a few who go down that route but (crappy memory these days) have no idea who that is.
Overall, I get it. This topic brings out the best/worst in people... but getting all blissful about kids dying is ugly shit.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You used to have a different name, but I can't for the life of me remember it. We is getting old.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Yes.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
For pointing out that you're signal-boosting atrocity-denying grifter?
Can you point out where I said that? No, of course you can't.
(Edited for a typo and no other reason.)
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krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Indeed.You used to have a different name, but I can't for the life of me remember it. We is getting old.
Had to change it because of severe harassment from a dodgy poster on this site.
Otherwise, would have kept it!
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Israeli warcrimes are terrible.
The Grayzone and Max Blumenthal are pro-Syrian, pro-Kremlin, antisemitic scum.
It's really not difficult. But here we are.
But yeah, I'll "fuck off."
The Grayzone and Max Blumenthal are pro-Syrian, pro-Kremlin, antisemitic scum.
It's really not difficult. But here we are.
But yeah, I'll "fuck off."
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
MintPress is a repugnant, ill-informed blog by a conspiracy minded Assadist. If there are no better sources for a story, there’s probably a good reason. If there are better sources, use them.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Don't let that weirdo get to you
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
It was an Israeli soldier who invaded Gaza. His father was the architect of this mass civil murders as a strategy. My heart does not break. Save your crocodile tears. Your position is one of privilege.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
It's still not helpful, though, is it?
As for crocodile tears, I've been consistent on Palestine for years, whereas you have been chest beating since you joined this site.
You're just a mere phoney. Posting dubious sources.
Go to bed.
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Yep…
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
To your comfortable, personal position of privilege, it isn’t.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Clearly, you do not know the meaning of the phrase "crocodile tears".
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
RhymnRzn
anti-doter
You guys saw this i bet
www.aljazeera.com
The only way to rid enemies is to feed and clothe them: so dont go astray, get busy converting the weapons into farming tools.
Netanyahu warns Hezbollah after cross-border attack kills Israeli civilian
Israeli PM says Hezbollah will turn Beirut, southern Lebanon into Gaza if group’s attacks on Israel continue.
The only way to rid enemies is to feed and clothe them: so dont go astray, get busy converting the weapons into farming tools.
PTK
Paul Kegan
You guys saw this i bet
Netanyahu warns Hezbollah after cross-border attack kills Israeli civilian
Israeli PM says Hezbollah will turn Beirut, southern Lebanon into Gaza if group’s attacks on Israel continue.
The only way to rid enemies is to feed and clothe them: so dont go astray, get busy converting the weapons into farming tools.
By “children of Israel” he is referring to Black Africans, not to Israeli Jews. According to Rastafarianism, Black Africans are the “true” Jews.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
In defence of formulaic anti-political anarchism, it's not as though anyone else actually has plausible realistic solutions to the immediate pressing problems either. I mean, I think there are things that we can do to get towards a situation where those problems might seem a bit less impossible, which is why I'm part of the same movement as the people waving national flags. But the choice to wave a flag certainly doesn't get us anywhere by itself, waving a flag or not waving a flag is a pretty abstract piece of symbolism either way.
Also, unrelated to the above and hopefully goes without saying, but obviously Dystopiary is a good, thoughtful and appreciated poster and WLT is a really fucking toxic one on this subject.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
I must admit, I've never been on the Jeremy Bowen bandwagon. Perhaps I don't pay enough attention, perhaps I don't watch or read enough BBC. But he's bang on here with this analysis.
Following the vote in the UN Security Council, Israel now has more time to continue its military operation in Gaza - and whether it’s a month, or three months or more, I think judging at the pace things are going, Israel may well struggle to achieve its military objectives.
It will be messy. There won’t be an easy end. There won’t be a moment when Israel says it’s time to go home and rebuild, which is the kind of thing that happened before in the wars between Hamas and Israel. This is of a totally different order of magnitude. That’s why the future is unknown territory for everyone involved in this.
Hamas is continuing to fire rockets into Israeli areas, but also fighting Israeli troops street by street in Gaza, inflicting casualties. Israel has tremendous military power. In a 24-hour period this week, it says it hit Gaza 450 times by land, sea and air - and that is an enormous amount of power and destruction. But what it has not so far done is show it can break Hamas as a military organisation with a military chain of command.
Then, perhaps, Israeli could claim victory. But right now, Hamas is still fighting in an organised way, which will dismay those Israelis who want this to be over and done with.
And an issue Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is going to have, is that they have set a very high bar for victory – annihilate Hamas. Not just as a military organisation, but as a group that has a political role as well. Since those ideas are pretty much embedded among some Palestinians, that might be pretty much impossible.
As for abstract pieces of symbolism. "From the river to the sea" falls into that category for me. It's a chant. It has little chance of meaningful reality. Meanwhile, those who condemn that chant seem quite able to support an actual reality whereby the Israeli military are pushing Palestinians into the sea, or at least a narrow strip of land by the sea. On October 16th Palestinians were told to go south to Khan Younis. Leafleted even (reminding me of Howard Jacobson's article where he defended Israeli actions with:
Genocides don’t leaflet the populations they want to destroy with warnings to stay out of harm’s way,)
Three days later, Israel started bombing Khan Younis. Now BN is declaring he may turn southern Lebanon into "Gaza and Khan Younis".
It is, as the doctor from MSF said, "the catastrophe of the century"
Medics are, and have been for a while, operating on patients on the floor. Safe areas are not safe. Leafleted or not.
It still irks me that some posters refuse to engage with this thread because of posts like WLT's. While all this is going on, the most important thing is the horror of the British Left?
Get a grip.
Following the vote in the UN Security Council, Israel now has more time to continue its military operation in Gaza - and whether it’s a month, or three months or more, I think judging at the pace things are going, Israel may well struggle to achieve its military objectives.
It will be messy. There won’t be an easy end. There won’t be a moment when Israel says it’s time to go home and rebuild, which is the kind of thing that happened before in the wars between Hamas and Israel. This is of a totally different order of magnitude. That’s why the future is unknown territory for everyone involved in this.
Hamas is continuing to fire rockets into Israeli areas, but also fighting Israeli troops street by street in Gaza, inflicting casualties. Israel has tremendous military power. In a 24-hour period this week, it says it hit Gaza 450 times by land, sea and air - and that is an enormous amount of power and destruction. But what it has not so far done is show it can break Hamas as a military organisation with a military chain of command.
Then, perhaps, Israeli could claim victory. But right now, Hamas is still fighting in an organised way, which will dismay those Israelis who want this to be over and done with.
And an issue Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is going to have, is that they have set a very high bar for victory – annihilate Hamas. Not just as a military organisation, but as a group that has a political role as well. Since those ideas are pretty much embedded among some Palestinians, that might be pretty much impossible.
As for abstract pieces of symbolism. "From the river to the sea" falls into that category for me. It's a chant. It has little chance of meaningful reality. Meanwhile, those who condemn that chant seem quite able to support an actual reality whereby the Israeli military are pushing Palestinians into the sea, or at least a narrow strip of land by the sea. On October 16th Palestinians were told to go south to Khan Younis. Leafleted even (reminding me of Howard Jacobson's article where he defended Israeli actions with:
Genocides don’t leaflet the populations they want to destroy with warnings to stay out of harm’s way,)
Three days later, Israel started bombing Khan Younis. Now BN is declaring he may turn southern Lebanon into "Gaza and Khan Younis".
It is, as the doctor from MSF said, "the catastrophe of the century"
Medics are, and have been for a while, operating on patients on the floor. Safe areas are not safe. Leafleted or not.
It still irks me that some posters refuse to engage with this thread because of posts like WLT's. While all this is going on, the most important thing is the horror of the British Left?
Get a grip.
ska invita
back on the other side
What if there are next to no Palestinians left in Israel? That solves that, and that's the real military objective, and to my eyes clearly achievable.
Yes there can be a Palestinian military organisation based outside Israeli borders, but if ethnic cleansing is successful then on many a score Hamas can be 'annhiliated' from Israel at least.t
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Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Glad I'm not the only one who is thinking this.
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Yes I don't understand such 'disengagement'. Is it simply that some posters don't like to be faced with harsh criticism of Israel atm? Why? Would milder criticism be OK? Would they still be posting here if nobody said anything negative at all about Israeli actions or motivations?
Is it impossible to identify with Israel and yet see the current brutality for what it is? Is there a degree of self-examination needed to see the truth of what's happening, that some people are simply not prepared to engage with? I don't get it.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
In a much worse use of the Palestinian flag, a group that identified themselves as Jewish Harvard students hired a plane to tow this banner over several campuses this week.
View attachment 403530
This website is unavailable in your location. – Boston 25 News
www.boston25news.com
Been reading that heads of universities are being given a head time for not stopping pro Palestine students.
With now a government inquiry into universities and protests about Gaza bombing.
What is annoying is that one head of a college said that the constitution of US defends free speech.
Which is correct. But it seems in this case no.
In this case their is no defence of free speech and those that do are accused of aiding anti semitism.
It's much worse in US than here. I'm not sure why given the mainstream political establishment are pro Israel. And are opposing ceasefire.
Read this surprisingly good article in Guardian about US. Shows the level of anger on both sides.
A protest against a top Israel-born chef was called antisemitic. Staff tell a different story
Michael Solomonov’s Israel-inspired restaurant empire has come under scrutiny by pro-Palestinian protesters, who accuse him of complicity in attacks on Gaza
Also how social media can make things worse.
Context is lost
Another thing article shows is how liberal Israelis- like this restaurant owner- get in double bind about supporting IDF and being seen as nice liberal person. When same IDF is mass murdering civilians.
In end sacking people for being critical of his support for Israel at his hip restaurants.
In the end the whole way his business plan- a hip socially liberal place to work- went out of the window with Gaza shows the problem with liberal Israelis
The section of politics of food is interesting as well.
Worth a read for the context of what is happening in US.
Good piece of journalism - went out to get the context.
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I'm not going to get bothered about people waving flags on a ceasefire demonstration. What does concern me is supposed socialists throwing class politics completely out the window and lining up full and square behind nationalism. Not because of any ideological purity, rather the opposite, it is entirely pragmatic - because past history says that is a really dangerous road to go down.
National liberation today, social revolution tomorrow sounds like a sensible idea. If there was a good reason for believing the strategy worked I'd be all for it (and once upon a time I was). But as Spain (in Homage to Catalonia Orwell notes his ideological sympathy with the Communist position of aligning to fight the fascists, the problem being that in practice the dropping of class struggle was used to attack others), Algeria (as mentioned in the LRB piece), Iran, and loads of other examples show all too often it ends very badly for workers, especially the local socialists/communists.
That does not mean I'm arguing for nothing to be done, for people to simply sit about and sigh 'oh dear', socialists have to organise in the situation they have, not the situation that we would want.
Workers might be orientating around nationalism or populism and it is stupid and counter productive to simply discard people on that basis (and that applies not only in Palestine or Ukraine but also here). And national and/or populist struggles can be a way that working class expresses its itself against capital.
But some sort of notion of class struggle does need to me kept in mind. Not just for tomorrow but for today, for the feminist, queer and socialist Palestinians that are struggling not just against Israel but also Hamas.
(Not really directed at you hitmouse more just riffing off your post)
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I googled Howard Jacobson.
Had a look at this.
The founding of Israel wasn’t a colonial act – a refugee isn’t a colonist
It’s understandable that Palestinians have been indoctrinated with Jew hate, but there is no such excuse for Western students.
www.newstatesman.com
Load of bile directed at the "left". Little definition. They are against "finance" and don't like a "winner" ( Israel in 1967 war). Which for him is signs of anti semitism.
He takes issue with idea that Israel is a colonial state.
What I was thinking was that of the books I've read on Israel and Zionist history half have been by Jewish Israelis.
The definitive book on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine is by a Jewish Israeli historian. Ilan Pappe the historian does say Israel is a settler colonial state.
( not a go at you btw. Just wondered what his take on it was.)
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