Some of the things Barnby Raine said are too much even for me. I don't share his anger at the festival goers for instance. I also really don't like his shouty style. Michael Walker OTOH is a gem and is always worth listening to whether I agree with him or not.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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Serge Forward
Just enjoyin' my coffee.
It's an old propaganda cliché that the Israeli government and its supporters like to say. It's basically saying anybody else would have wiped the Arabs off the face of the Earth by now.
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Perhaps but I think it is valid to point out the stark difference between the rave and life mere miles away for people under occupation, and without glorifying the violence. Those conditions aren't going to go away. Certainly not now.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
Yeah, I've only watched it through once (and while doing work), so I may have missed something, but while the phrasing might not be the clearest, I took his point to be contrasting the two different life experiences in order to highlight the larger issue, rather than directly attacking those attending the festival.
Like pointing to people eating at a restaurant while others visit foodbanks or even ask for food/money on the streets to demonstrate a systemic issue.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
As a juxtaposition I think it is a fair comment
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
I imagine Barnaby, himself Jewish, will accrue much opprobrium for his comments because the climate is now so hot and so racist. I'm already sick of "DO YOU CONDEMN HAMAS" as the price of entry into the discourse and the toll to be paid if you want to be seen as a rational interlocutor. It is the price of compassion and it's used to wage class war against people like Jammy Crumbles who has to be portrayed as a racist. Now we see he is more popular than Starmer and the political chickens come home to roost
Just watched the first couple of minutes but he is totally right.
It is impossible for any independent investigation as all of North Gaza is too dangerous. Israel has track record of blaming Palestinians for attacks they have conducted and then flooding the digital space with misinformation to muddy the waters, aided by friendly western media. The IDF have destroyed entire city blocks, targeted ambulances, medical staff, fleeing civilians along the roads it told them to flee on, bombed schools, cut off power supplies to hospitals along with all of Gaza and cut off water as well as blocking food supplies and medicine, blocking aid arriving from Egypt by bombing the border crossing.
Of course they are responsible for blowing up the hospital and getting distracted by bits and pieces of photos which attempt to construct an alternative narrative where the Palestinians are blowing themselves up is a fool's game.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A fool's game many will quite happily play
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
If militants were firing rockets then we would have more evidence. They would have been doing so already. If they were bold enough to attack Isreal they wouldn't be coy about firing back during an all out assault bit the IDF want us to believe this is the only, so far, example of rocket fire and it went horribly wrong. Nothing more to see here. Bullshit. Then there's the ton of footage from press being threatened, attacked, IDF and Israeli's quite clearly saying they want to destroy Gaza and kill Palestianians. Isreal is a sick country
The footage is pretty definitive and has been verified by the guardian. the rocket comes from the ground behind the hospital from what i can see.
Al-Ahli Arab hospital: piecing together what happened as Israel insists militant rocket to blame
Open-source information gives an idea of what happened at the hospital where hundreds were killedwww.theguardian.com
many people on here seem to embrace the post-truth era. emotion and probabilities over facts and details. and then refusal to engage when evidence is presented. novara media perhaps the poster child for post-truth on the extreme left.
I read that and I was unconvinced. Fragments of footage and a few photos put together and then a narrative put over them. No actual evidence.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Pbsm is easily beguiled
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
In any case the winners out of this debate are the idf who haven't stopped raining destruction on the gaza strip
The alternative narrative being spun here is part of post-truth disinformation warfare. Unless it offers any actual concrete evidence that Palestinians blew themselves up - which it doesn't and there are active attempts to prevent investigation - then using your common sense is the safest bet.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
You've forgotten your original take. You've leaving Hamas out now. So that would be two winners.
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
Lots of unsubtle references to Nazis and WW2 before Sunak tags something on about humanitarian concessions.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I'm trying to stay off this thread, but I'm quite shocked at your complete (wilful?) ignorance here Karl Masks.
Hamas and PIJ have been firing loads of rockets out of Gaza, there's videos of them doing it made by themselves, plus all the tracking and other video footage. And it's not the only example of a rocket fired at Israeli going wrong, it's estimated around 30% fail to reach their target through malfunction. I can't be arsed to show you the info, but it's out there if you do the most cursory look.
You must have to put some effort in to stay this ignorant.
Capitol Hill apparently taken over by pro-Palestine supporters.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Some snippets from that:
“I know that you are taking every precaution to avoid harming civilians in direct contrast to the terrorists of Hamas which seeks to put civilians in harm's way," Sunak said. “I'm proud to stand here with you. In Israel's darkest hour as your friend… We will stand with your people and we also want you to win."
At least 3,785 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli air strikes since the war began, the majority of whom are civilians.
Sunak did not condemn Israel’s killing of civilians in Gaza, or its cutting of electricity, water and resources.
Yossarian
⏭️
I wonder how many lawmakers thought they had misheard when they were told there was a sit-in by pro-Palestine Jews
Jewish activists arrested at US Congress sit-in calling for Gaza ceasefire
Demonstrators from anti-war group Jewish Voice for Peace rallied against ‘Israel’s ongoing oppression of Palestinians’.
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
“it's estimated around 30% fail to reach their target through malfunction”
Because of the basic technologies of their missiles, the rest mainly get shot out the sky by the iron dome technology
It’s wilful ignorance/naivety to present the situation as some sort of equal on all sides battle.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
And nowhere did I do that, I pointed out the factual inaccuracies in his post.
Stop jumping to emotional positions pretending to be political ones when they're nothing to do with what I said.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The idf have not stopped bombing gaza. But the prominent media in the UK and US are not reporting that with much effort going into the obfuscation of the blast at the hospital. That is why I'm saying the idf have won this debate, they have gained the most from it as it has largely masked their other activities in gaza.
I'd say it is looking like it may not be. Fucked if I know and if anyone ever will for certain. You make a good list of other things Israeli forces has done all of which show what their "defence" means and grounds for pressure to be put on them
Anyone have any idea of the death toll now? I've heard 471 confirmed killed but was hoping as we're being told there is less damage than initially thought that it may be lower.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Sadly this thread has mostly become an echo chamber for the worst of Urban's non-critical thinkers. It's almost a mirror of the Daily Mail universe.
The U75 boards are interesting, but there is a propensity to this kind of uncritical posturing, normally it is held in balance, and is quite refreshing; but I think the true horror of what happened during the Hamas attacks on Israel and the decades long ongoing tragedy of Gaza and the recent Israeli actions mean that most of the 'grown-ups' on the boards (and that is people with a range of opinions across the issue, most of whom I don't agree with ) have basically given up on this thread over the last few days as it leaves a particularly bad taste in the mouth to engage in the style of debate normal on Urban in the face of such death and human suffering on an immense scale.
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