The UK would not be involved in the Ukraine conflict if the USA was not leading the way. It's been the same story of slavish obedience since the first Iraq war. Time for a change.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
The UK would not be involved in the Ukraine conflict if the USA was not leading the way. It's been the same story of slavish obedience since the first Iraq war. Time for a change.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
Leading the way?
Yes. What, you think the UK is leading the USA?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Seems as if Russia might be 'leading the way' in this conflict, but I fear I'm too liberal to see the hidden hand at work.
Blimey, what a bunch of useless ignoramuses they all are.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
get outta here, ukraine has no agency, its not even a real country, putin said so!!1
Nothing hidden about it. Maidan coup, abrogation of Minsk accords, war in Donbass all directed by the USA from 2014.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
fuck me you need to give the youtube a rest
dilute micro
esse quam videri
The US have been slow in helping Ukraine and have only given in to sending some types of weaponry after UK and others did so first. I think you're thinking of the amount of money, maybe. That's not leading.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
And all those obedient Ukrainians did what they were told.
What, you think those things didn't happen? Or that the USA didn't direct them? Seriously interested.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
No you aren't. You aren't serious about any of this. You think you are, but you're actually just having a good old time winding yourself up and would like the validation of inflicting it on other people. You read what you like. Etc.
I suspect what you say is true of many people here. I certainly experience myself as serious, even though it may not seem that way to others. Maybe best to stick to the substantive topic under discussion?
I'm thinking of diplomatic pressure.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
Let me guess. Behind the scenes pressure, from deep state warmongering neocons, which conveniently leaves no trace?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Rhomboid, of course. Flat Earthers are a CIA conspiracy to hide the truth.
No, open and undisguised pressure of the "you're either with us or against us" variety. The USA has been desperately trying to pressure all of its allies into joining in or at least funding the war. Fortunately it only seems to work on the UK:
Opinion | The U.S. Can’t Force the Rest of the World to Support Ukraine. Here’s Why.
Outside the U.S. and Europe, countries tend to see Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a regional conflict, not a global crisis.
www.politico.com
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
On a spending in relation to their defence budget ratio basis, it's those notorious war mongering Swedes you want to look out for. Far ahead of the likes of us. (Poland too, but they have an axe to grind)No, open and undisguised pressure of the "you're either with us or against us" variety. The USA has been desperately trying to pressure all of its allies into joining in or at least funding the war. Fortunately it only seems to work on the UK:
Opinion | The U.S. Can’t Force the Rest of the World to Support Ukraine. Here’s Why.
Outside the U.S. and Europe, countries tend to see Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a regional conflict, not a global crisis.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
No, open and undisguised pressure of the "you're either with us or against us" variety. The USA has been desperately trying to pressure all of its allies into joining in or at least funding the war. Fortunately it only seems to work on the UK:
Opinion | The U.S. Can’t Force the Rest of the World to Support Ukraine. Here’s Why.
Outside the U.S. and Europe, countries tend to see Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a regional conflict, not a global crisis.
That article addresses a completely different point from the one at hand, which is whether Ukraine and other European countries, including the UK, realised before the US that resisting the Russian invasion was a regional imperative that would need considerable support in treasure, if not in blood.
The article you post is about the difficulty in convincing non-European and non-NATO unaligned states. You’re not really doing all this in good faith, are you?
The article shows how the USA pressures other nations into doing its will. Do you have any evidence for this claim?
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
Every nation pressures other nations into doing their will. That's what diplomacy is. Both China and the US happen to have a very deep bag of bribery to dip into, so they're more effective at it. But I mean... you're not wrong, it's just that that is the way the world has worked for centuries. So... Big deal?
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
The bit which gets me about these kinds of takes is the way they just totally ignore the efforts of Ukraine itself (ironically because it doesn't fit their favourite phrase, "the narrative") and any concept of the leaders of these various countries having their own agendas. It's not "US pressure" that's persuaded Germany to send tanks, it's a wide range of factors involving domestic interests, European politicking and successful lobbying from Zelensky (who whatever else you might say about him has been a very assiduous and frequently successful diplomatic presence). It's a thing about conspiraloons that they work up these incredibly convoluted ways to come to simplistic conclusions.
Silas Loom
Hated by both sides
It’s applied to all the big inflection points in support, from training troops to providing main battle tanks to supplying longer-range missiles.
Anyway, this is silly. I’d rather just put you on ignore and wait for this thread to go back to being one where people like kebabking who know what they are talking about with war stuff offer something above and beyond what’s generally reported.
dilute micro
esse quam videri
I agree that a war like this brings dangers and players need to be careful about what they do. However the threat of nukes is overblown based on what we know from the cold war. It wasn't cold. There were military punches between the US and USSR during that time and it didn't go to mushroom clouds. That's because nukes don't play the role we think and no one wants to use them. Accidents were probably more likely to set the world ablaze than intention.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
'diplomatic pressure' isn't quite 'directing things'. as I said, best take a break from youtube.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
That’s the dunce. I bet he still believes he is an expert on Brexit.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
And if he takes another 5 or 6 years off here that'd be no bad thing either
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