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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

My point was that the West blundered by fighting alongside Nazi units because, although they are not representative of the majority, they hand Putin the propaganda tool of representing the war as a fight against Nazis thus motivating his population to fanatical heights that he could achieve by no other means.

My other point was that involving German in the war was a similar blunder because, although Germany is not a Nazi country, it hand Putin the even better indeed unsurpassable propaganda tool of... etc. etc.
I'm intrigued as to where you get this idea of fanatical heights from Phil? Seems to have been apathy and indifference then support solidifying when some attacks occurred in Russia, just because it was coming home rather than Nazis or Germans. Also the idea that since they've started it they'd best win or they're fucked. But fanaticism seems notably absent.
 
I'm intrigued as to where you get this idea of fanatical heights from Phil? Seems to have been apathy and indifference then support solidifying when some attacks occurred in Russia, just because it was coming home rather than Nazis or Germans. Also the idea that since they've started it they'd best win or they're fucked. But fanaticism seems notably absent.

It depends who you talk to. I really meant that Putin aspired to rise his populace to such heights, not that he often achieves it. But he does achieve it sometimes. There are a lot of nutters in Russia, and I've met plenty who are fanatically anti-Nazi, believe that Ukraine is dominated by Nazis, and support the war (you might say fanatically) for those reasons. Remember Givi (can post clip if not)? Guys like that.
 
It depends who you talk to. I really meant that Putin aspired to rise his populace to such heights, not that he often achieves it. But he does achieve it sometimes. There are a lot of nutters in Russia, and I've met plenty who are fanatically anti-Nazi, believe that Ukraine is dominated by Nazis, and support the war (you might say fanatically) for those reasons. Remember Givi (can post clip if not)? Guys like that.
Don't doubt there's the usual types but it doesn't seem to have caught on generally, though I am tending to read the anti-Putin sources. But the credible ones like meduza certainly give that impression.
 
phildwyer 's name is often invoked in the routine that some like to go through, where they complain about wind-up threads being better in the olden days so let's see how he measures up; the pressure is on.
My money is on it being like ernestolynch's comeback, much anticipated but unable to live up to the hype of people's nostalgic recollections, followed by a sad decline into irrelevance, as a weary userbase gets more and more bored by someone starring in their own bad tribute act.
 
No sharper than the ones already on Moscow ...
Putin's not likely to commit suicide

He won't need to bother with suicide if Russia loses this war, or even draws it, and he's well aware of that. So who knows what he might do if backed against the wall.

But tbh I'm more worried about the USA going nuclear. They have form in this regard after all.
 

Well, for a start the Turks are not going to let anyone's naval vessels into the Black Sea at the moment, so the point about the Royal Navy is utter flimflam - we are not going to be sending ships into the Black Sea. Secondly, despite what the headline proclaims to the world the only thing Michael Green revealed is that he'd held talks with Army leaders about eventually moving training into Ukraine. I imagine the response was "If you mean during wartime, then that is a silly idea Minister".

These are idiotic statements, made by a minister who is a specialist in such things. The paper responsible can also throw itself into the bin as well.

edit: one other lie is that this will be "British troops will be deployed in Ukraine for the first time" - they've been there in training roles from 2015 until just before the SMO started
 
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They don't really, only against a country on the verge of defeat who weren't themselves armed with nuclear weapons.

But it revealed a ruthlessness and recklessness that has characterized US foreign policy ever since. It only takes one nutter in a position of power, and there are plenty of them in and around the US government at the moment. People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.
 
But it revealed a ruthlessness and recklessness that has characterized US foreign policy ever since. It only takes one nutter in a position of power, and there are plenty of them in and around the US government at the moment. People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.
Ruthless and reckless applies to so many world leaders, now and in the past. We've all been at their mercy for yonks. I just don't see the US likely right now to risk everything by going nuclear.
 
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