Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[agricola]

But it revealed a ruthlessness and recklessness that has characterized US foreign policy ever since. It only takes one nutter in a position of power, and there are plenty of them in and around the US government at the moment. People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.

I doubt very much they'd (the neocons) launch a nuclear attack unless the US had been obviously attacked first and needed to make a point (as in some form of obviously state backed 9/11).

More likely is some kind of nuclear adventurism, such as someone accidentally including a couple of B-61 in a weapons shipment to Ukraine or Taiwan.

 

[Pickman's model]

But it revealed a ruthlessness and recklessness that has characterized US foreign policy ever since. It only takes one nutter in a position of power, and there are plenty of them in and around the US government at the moment. People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.

And what offices do they occupy in the Biden administration?

 

[Raheem]

People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.

Don't forget Kissinger.

 

[tim]

And what offices do they occupy in the Biden administration?

They are the back (broom) room boys.

 

[dilute micro]

That's the trigger. If the British get attacked by torpedo boats the US air force starts turning keys

 

[strung out]

People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.

Two people who were most recently appointed to senior positions in the US government by [checks notes] President Donald J Trump.

 

[phildwyer]

And what offices do they occupy in the Biden administration?

It's not like the UK, these people exert influence on both parties through think-tanks. Bolton and Pompeo are signed up to the neocon agenda, which unites mainstream (i.e. non-Trump) Republicans and all the Democrats.

Trump to his credit opposed the neocon agenda, so B and P couldn't work with him. They're actually much more significant influences on the Biden admin, where the likes of Burns, Blinken and Sullivan serve as their ideological heirs.

 

[phildwyer]

Ruthless and reckless applies to so many world leaders, now and in the past. We've all been at their mercy for yonks. I just don't see the US likely right now to risk everything by going nuclear.

I wish I shared your confidence. But they way I see it, US foreign policy has been in the hands of the neocon clique ever since 9/11. It has spent the last 20 years staggering around the world like a drunk truing to pick a fight a closing time, destroying one nation after another without the slightest compunction.

Now they're getting ready to fight Russia and China at the same time, and no-one should imagine they will back down. The UK should have thought twice before hitching its star to this our-of-control juggernaut.

 

[phildwyer]

I doubt very much they'd (the neocons) launch a nuclear attack unless the US had been obviously attacked first and needed to make a point (as in some form of obviously state backed 9/11).

Or at least the appearance of such an attack. I fear they may be tempted to use a false-flag nuke as an excuse for massive retaliation.

 

[phildwyer]

Don't forget Kissinger.

The crew of psychos currently running the USA make Kissinger look like Confucius.

 

[dilute micro]

Or at least the appearance of such an attack. I fear they may be tempted to use a false-flag nuke as an excuse for massive retaliation.

You have lost your mind.

 

[teqniq]

Dwyer in talking complete shit shocker.

 

[phildwyer]

You have lost your mind.

You're probably right. It's not like the USA has a long history of false flag attacks stretching from the Texan Revolt of 1846 through the annexation of Hawaii, to the Gulf of Tonkin, all the way up to the Nordstream pipeline. It's not like they deploy this tactic with such reliability that it has become their veritable trademark:

United States: The false flag empire

The trajectory of the American Empire has relied so heavily on false flag attacks one could describe it as a false flag empire.

independentaustralia.net

 

[phildwyer]

Dwyer in talking complete shit shocker.

You're probably right. It's not like the USA is run by a clique of psychos who have over the last thirty years repeatedly demonstrated their capacity for reckless aggression and their complete disregard for human life. I'm sure we can trust them to act with appropriate restraint.

 

[phildwyer]

And it's not like the USA has ever used nuclear weapons before. They leave all that to nasty men like Putin, who obviously dreams of mushroom clouds nightly.

Jesus you lot are romping towards Armageddon in blissful ignorance.

 

[Chz]

They're a right sack full of bastards, all right. But they do act according ro their own twisted logic. None of which would indicate they're itching for nuclear bombs to go off over America. Russia can barely threaten Ukraine, and the US's nightmare scenario is China seizing the rich resources of Siberia if Russia were to fall apart. You can't just say they'd do it because they're evil, even evil makes sense. There's no conceivable outcome where America comes out ahead of where they are now in such a scenario. Ideally they want Russia to go home, re-arm, and worry more about China than the West for a change.

 

[emanymton]

And it's not like the USA has ever used nuclear weapons before. They leave all that to nasty men like Putin, who obviously dreams of mushroom clouds nightly.

Jesus you lot are romping towards Armageddon in blissful ignorance.

I'm starting to see the positives of nuclear armageddon these days. Like not having to read any more of your shit.

 

[TopCat]

Shapps is a fucking idiot and has no awareness of this. It’s worrying.

 

[teqniq]

Shapps is a fucking idiot and has no awareness of this. It’s worrying.

He is indeed a fucking idiot, I mean what were they thinking putting him in charge of defence? He really hasn't got a clue. I think agricola is largely right on this. The Turks won't be letting any warships pass the Bosphorus straits and the UK have indeed had UK troops on the ground in Ukraine for quite some time.

 

[TopCat]

I doubt Shapps ever heard of the constraints of entering the Black Sea to engage the Russian Navy and airforce. Probably thinks of it as all a game.

 

[StoneRoad]

Shapps was a disaster for Transport and I don't expect that he'll do any better for Defence.

A political expendiency, perhaps, by Sunak.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's not like the UK, these people exert influence on both parties through think-tanks. Bolton and Pompeo are signed up to the neocon agenda, which unites mainstream (i.e. non-Trump) Republicans and all the Democrats.

Trump to his credit opposed the neocon agenda, so B and P couldn't work with him. They're actually much more significant influences on the Biden admin, where the likes of Burns, Blinken and Sullivan serve as their ideological heirs

Thank you for confirming they're not in the Biden govt.

 

[nogojones]

People like Bolton and Pompeo are crazy enough to do it.

But I thought you believed the Trump wing of the Republican party to be the safer option in terms of world peace, IIRC from some of your other posts.

 

[kabbes]

I doubt Shapps ever heard of the constraints of entering the Black Sea to engage the Russian Navy and airforce. Probably thinks of it as all a game.

Isn’t Shapps the one during Brexit who said he hadn’t realised how important Dover was for Britain’s imports and exports?

 

[dilute micro]

And it's not like the USA has ever used nuclear weapons before. They leave all that to nasty men like Putin, who obviously dreams of mushroom clouds nightly.

Jesus you lot are romping towards Armageddon in blissful ignorance.

The UK has troops on the ground in Ukraine and your first thoughts turn to the US, as if the UK aren't completely responsible for their own actions. Even if all of them were wiped out, that's on the UK.

Putin has been the one rattling the nuclear sabre, not the US. Everything said by the US has been in response to Russian threats of using nukes whether verbally or by action. No one, in suits or uniform, wants to trade nukes. That's all in your head.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Isn’t Shapps the one during Brexit who said he hadn’t realised how important Dover was for Britain’s imports and exports?

No, that was Michael Green

 

[phildwyer]

But I thought you believed the Trump wing of the Republican party to be the safer option in terms of world peace, IIRC from some of your other posts.

Yes, that's why Trump could not work with Bolton or Pompeo. He tried, but they hate him and are following their own agenda.

 

[Silas Loom]

Isn’t Shapps the one during Brexit who said he hadn’t realised how important Dover was for Britain’s imports and exports?

Dominic Raab. Not Corinne Stockheath. Raab was in charge of DexEU at the time, as well.

 

[phildwyer]

They're a right sack full of bastards, all right. But they do act according ro their own twisted logic. None of which would indicate they're itching for nuclear bombs to go off over America. Russia can barely threaten Ukraine, and the US's nightmare scenario is China seizing the rich resources of Siberia if Russia were to fall apart. You can't just say they'd do it because they're evil, even evil makes sense. There's no conceivable outcome where America comes out ahead of where they are now in such a scenario. Ideally they want Russia to go home, re-arm, and worry more about China than the West for a change.

You're attributing reason to irrational people. It's not only individuals who become depressed, self-destructive, psychotic or suicidal. Entire societies can and do succumb to mental illness, and the USA shows every sign of being in the grip of a deep psychosis.

It's not just foreign policy, all you have to do is walk the streets of any major city. You'll see very visible, epidemic mental illness and mass drug addiction--and that's just what you see, Lord know what's going on behind closed doors. Half the population wouldn't even notice a nuclear exchange tbh.

 

[The39thStep]

I doubt Shapps ever heard of the constraints of entering the Black Sea to engage the Russian Navy and airforce. Probably thinks of it as all a game.

Probably thinks Russia is behind the war against motorists