Steel Icarus
we move
Made me snort
The Ashes 2023
- Thread starter WhyLikeThis
- Start date
Made me snortWhy don't they just tell Root to man up and bat at 3. The 'selfless' mantra stokes/baz keep banging on about doesn't seem to apply to him.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Root's rationale for not batting 3 - that he needed a mental breather after captaining in the field - was fair enough, but it is no longer valid. IMO he should have held his hand up for it. Think he owes the team something after his last four innings.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
England has a weird history with the number 3 position going back years. In most teams, it's a privilege to bat there, often reserved for your best player. Williamson, Ponting, Lara, Bradman! Who wouldn't want to bat where Bradman batted?
It may have to do with the fact that No.3 is effectively an opener with England. However that's been getting a bit better of late. Root's got no excuses left. It's gonna be v interesting to see what happens though. Surely Mo will need to go out there and just swing from the start.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Tbf England also have a recent history of piss poor openers. I don't know who opened when Bradman played but I guess he didn't come in within the first few overs quite that often.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Dravid came in ahead of Tendulkar. Pujara came in ahead of Kohli. There's a case for a solid defensive player at 3 with your more expressive strokemaker at 4. England have gone for a pinch hitter instead.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I guess the old test of 'who would the opposition want to see walking out at three' is valid here. I think they'd say 'can we have Moeen, please?' One down likely soon to become two down.
Well yeh but potentially after 50-60 very quick runs. You'd hope they've thought this through.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Or he scratches around for a couple of overs before he's clean bowled by one that's too good for him. TBH that's what happened last match. Sadly with the bat, I think we've seen the best of Moeen in test cricket. He's underachieved certainly, but his heyday, when occasional glory was possible, was a few years ago.
I will be very happy to be proved wrong.
I will be very happy to be proved wrong.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yeah I'd agree to be honest. Whatever the external factors were he's ultimately never shown that he was able to hold down a top six spot as a batsman and players showing sudden improvement at the age of 36 are rare aren't they. I think their calculation is that they're happy to have a number 8 type innings from the number 3 if it protects Root and Brook a little bit and enables them to get the extra bowler in, more than that they expect a high chance of a big score from him there.
So they're effectively sending in a nightwatchman on the first morning of a test? No - surely he's not there to protect the others, he's there to smash it over the rope.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Not sure about Anderson, maybe he'll summon one last hurrah, particularly with it being Old Trafford. While he's never been picked for his batting, there's the scenario of Stokes, Brook or someone else splattering the bowling all over only to have Anderson come in and be out 1st ball.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
England do seem to be trying to solve one problem by moving people around and creating others. It was ever thus given you can only pick 11, but this feels like something set up to fail.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Tbh though if you're relying on your number 11 you really are fucked.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
tbh the batting prowess of the number 11 really is the least of England's worries.
I fear Anderson's been picked on reputation over form. Hope he's shown something in the nets.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
Looks like he’ll get 7 wickets in the test and retire at the end of next summer then.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Well, yeah, that's the worry.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yeah, of course, it's usually a case of relying on Stokes. It's just that he will need someone to play the Jack Leach role. But, I digress, the issue is that winding Anderson up for one more go doesn't really display any kind of strength in depth and, more importantly, doesn't really give you much confidence that they've put a match winner in. Might end up with Stokes having to bowl and knackering himself even further.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Anderson's record at OT is excellent. I'm all for horses for courses. To leave him out would be a bigger risk than having him there.
Mo at 3 is desperation but I'm ok with it as we haven't had a proper number 3 since Gower, and even he only played a quarter of his games there.
If someone replies Hick or Ballance you are automatically disqualified from this thread.
Mo at 3 is desperation but I'm ok with it as we haven't had a proper number 3 since Gower, and even he only played a quarter of his games there.
If someone replies Hick or Ballance you are automatically disqualified from this thread.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Had a horrible breakdown, one of the worst things I've seen on a cricket field. Warner said he had 'scared eyes'. He was actually crying while trying to bat.
Never forget that cunt Vaughan described this as 'a con'.
Trott walkout was a con - Vaughan
Former England captain Michael Vaughan feels "conned" by Jonathan Trott's decision to leave England's winter Ashes tour.
www.bbc.co.uk
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
That seems a bit over the top tbh. It's playing down the contributions of Root (who's still comfortably England's best batsman), Brook and Duckett. There are some weak spots sure but it's not 'Stokes or nothing.'
Idaho
blah blah blah
I think his career was badly botched by England management. I think he could have been one of our great all rounders - if he'd been given the leeway of a Bell, Pope or Crawley
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Once you've settled on the 11 but realise you have no number 3, the calculation should be 'who loses the most runs by moving from his best position?' With Mooen, the stats say that you're probably losing 10 runs per completed innings. Unfortunately, the same is also true of Root, and I get that Brook looked bad there. Stokes certainly has the technique to bat 3, but he'd leave a hole at the trouble-shooting position of 6.
So I get the decision. There isn't really a good answer, so they've chosen this particular bad answer.
So I get the decision. There isn't really a good answer, so they've chosen this particular bad answer.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's unlucky to have played his best years batting alongside Stokes and Bairstow, who had first dibs on 6 and 7. Moeen is a natural number 7 but hardly ever seems to get to bat there. It's a shame. He only averages 27 with the bat now. Should be up with Stokes on 35+.
But tbh I'm more worried by the awful form of Bairstow than by Moeen's prospects at 3. I don't think Moeen's prospects at 7 were all that either, not with the 2023 version.
