The Ashes 2023

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

The Ashes: England name unchanged squad for fourth Test at Old Trafford

England name an unchanged squad for the fourth Ashes Test at Old Trafford.

www.bbc.co.uk

Same squad so still no Foakes. So presumably the same sort of team balance which means Woakes plays. Wood surely plays. So the only real question is the other two seamers.

 

[planetgeli]

The Ashes: England name unchanged squad for fourth Test at Old Trafford

England name an unchanged squad for the fourth Ashes Test at Old Trafford.

www.bbc.co.uk

Same squad so still no Foakes. So presumably the same sort of team balance which means Woakes plays. Wood surely plays. So the only real question is the other two seamers.

You're still questioning Broad? The leading wicket taker in the series on either side?

It's Old Trafford. It'll be Anderson and Broad.

Broad has 44 wickets at 19 at Old Trafford. It's arguably his favourite ground.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

You're still questioning Broad? The leading wicket taker in the series on either side?

It's Old Trafford. It'll be Anderson and Broad

Well I'm trying to second guess what they'll do and before the series you'd have said both of those would be rested at some point wouldn't you. FWIW I'd guess you'd be right but I'd say there's still a question mark there, compared to the rest of the team which looks totally nailed on.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Broad's been great, and full of energy. I'm happy to say that btw. I don't hate him.

Anderson would be there on reputation/sentiment, not form. If fit, Wood has to play. Woakes has to play. If Stokes can't bowl, there is a case for picking Anderson as a fourth seam option - Woakes's batting gives that as an option. OT is usually good for spinners, so you need to play Moeen. England need to win, need 20 wickets. Five bowlers plus Stokes makes sense when two of those bowlers can bat.

So swap Anderson for Robinson from the last team and no more changes? I can see them doing that.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I know he was never going to be picked, but there is a case for suggesting that England would be 3-0 up if Foakes had played. They just don't like him. Fuck knows why.

 

[Wilf]

.

 

[Wilf]

I know he was never going to be picked, but there is a case for suggesting that England would be 3-0 up if Foakes had played. They just don't like him. Fuck knows why.

Suppose there's all sorts of psychological stuff in play when it comes to (not) replacing players who are out of form. Not upsetting the team spirit, particularly with players who are seen as embodying 'the approach', along with the fact that some players have a fair bit of credit in the bank. It still feels like the wrong decision though. Bairstow was looking a bit hangdog in the last test and his confidence must have been low. In footballing terms, the likes of Guardiola and even the dread Mourhino would have dropped him in a heartbeat (though I suppose you could also find lots of counter examples in football management). Anyway, for me it boils down to the obvious: is Bairstow likely to fuck up again?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

He's kept badly three matches in a row now. If Foakes had kept that badly for even one match, he'd have been dropped. Is Bairstow even fully fit following his accident? I suspect that he isn't.

I wouldn't have played him as the keeper from the start, but that is as much to do with how keeping affects his batting as anything else. I didn't expect him to be a disaster behind the stumps. And let's face it, he has been a disaster behind the stumps. Bairstow keeping is a compromise you make when someone like Foakes isn't available. I think this selection all summer has been a mistake. If you insist on having Crawley opening, you drop Pope for Foakes. But Pope made a double hundred against a County Second Eleven the week before, and that muddied things as well.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Re Bairstow's credit in the bank, it was for his batting, not his keeping. Last year, he was judged not to be the right person to keep. What's changed? Nothing as far as I can see.

 

[planetgeli]

It all goes back to this post

They need Bairstow. They're gonna need some serious firepower. Australia looked very very good. Bairstow's a very competent keeper and can score at well over 100 so he's gotta be in for Bazball to work.

Can you remember a massive Bairstow blunder behind the stumps in the last few years?

 

[Petcha]

It all goes back to this post

Well I stand by that. The last few years I said.

He's clearly not right at the moment. I think letting Brook taking that catch said it all. He's also looking a little bit, er... out of shape.

 

[JimW]

It all goes back to this post

Uncanny!

 

[Petcha]

Uncanny!

What major errors did he make behind the stumps before his little golfing injury?

 

[Wilf]

Re Bairstow's credit in the bank, it was for his batting, not his keeping. Last year, he was judged not to be the right person to keep. What's changed? Nothing as far as I can see.

Yeah, that's what I meant and also that his batting heroics against NZ were very 'Bazballish'. Hard to get into the minds of the selectors, but that must be in there. But anyway, yes, he should certainly be 'rested' now.

Of course, cricket is one of those games where a player who survives by the skin of his teeth has the opportunity to prove everybody wrong. Though, to be honest, I thought the naughty stumping in the previous test might have produced an angry return to form with him at Leeds.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yeah, that's what I meant and also that his batting heroics against NZ were very 'Bazballish'. Hard to get into the minds of the selectors, but that must be in there. But anyway, yes, he should certainly be 'rested' now.

Of course, cricket is one of those games where a player who survives by the skin of his teeth has the opportunity to prove everybody wrong. Though, to be honest, I thought the naughty stumping in the previous test might have produced an angry return to form with him at Leeds.

Yeah I thought that, too. I'd have picked him for Leeds just on that. But now it hasn't happened...

But they're never going to change it for this series now. Best Foakes can hope for is a recall for India next year and then maybe he might cling on to his place from then on. Maybe.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

But they're never going to change it for this series now. Best Foakes can hope for is a recall for India next year and then maybe he might cling on to his place from then on. Maybe.

It's a different topic really but there's a lot of aging (for international sportspeople anyway - even Jimmy Anderson is younger than me!) players in that England team, post-Ashes would seem like the time to start moving a few on, and Bairstow could be one, particularly as wicketkeeper. I wouldn't be surprised to see them skip over Foakes though tbh, it would be consistent. James Rew seems to be racking up a lot of runs for Somerset and he's a keeper I think.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think that's very possible, yes. He's kept very well and averaged 32 with the bat, including some very important runs under Stokes. I don't get it and never will, but he may have played his last test.

 

[Wilf]

It's a different topic really but there's a lot of aging (for international sportspeople anyway - even Jimmy Anderson is younger than me!) players in that England team, post-Ashes would seem like the time to start moving a few on, and Bairstow could be one, particularly as wicketkeeper. I wouldn't be surprised to see them skip over Foakes though tbh, it would be consistent. James Rew seems to be racking up a lot of runs for Somerset and he's a keeper I think.

Do wonder how long Stokes has got. He's obviously not in danger of being dropped, but he's permanently walking wounded and may be close to the point where he ceases to be a genuine all rounder.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Do wonder how long Stokes has got. He's obviously not in danger of being dropped, but he's permanently walking wounded and may be close to the point where he ceases to be a genuine all rounder.

Yeah I think he'll wring a couple more years out of himself as a batsman who maybe bowls occasionally here and there but I'd be surprised if he's able to bowl lengthy spells for much longer if at all. It'll be interesting to see what happens actually because they've been very consistent in sticking with their core of trusted players but if he's going to hand over a healthy team whenever he does give it up then some of that core will need to make space for younger players coming in.

 

[Petcha]

Yeah I think he'll wring a couple more years out of himself as a batsman who maybe bowls occasionally here and there but I'd be surprised if he's able to bowl lengthy spells for much longer if at all. It'll be interesting to see what happens actually because they've been very consistent in sticking with their core of trusted players but if he's going to hand over a healthy team whenever he does give it up then some of that core will need to make space for younger players coming in.

Well yeah, but who is he gonna had over the captaincy to? That is a very tough act to follow, for anyone. No obvious candidates if they want to continue bazballing.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Well yeah, but who is he gonna had over the captaincy to? That is a very tough act to follow, for anyone. No obvious candidates if they want to continue bazballing.

I'd guess Brook in a couple of years.

 

[Wilf]

I'd guess Brook in a couple of years.

Whoever is the most reckless player they've got.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Whoever is the most reckless player they've got.

Mark Wood for captain!

 

[planetgeli]

He's clearly not right at the moment. I think letting Brook taking that catch said it all.

This bit I totally agree with. It was dereliction of duty brought about by incompetence and lack of confidence. He should have those duties, at least, removed. But we're shouting at clouds.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yeah I think he'll wring a couple more years out of himself as a batsman who maybe bowls occasionally here and there but I'd be surprised if he's able to bowl lengthy spells for much longer if at all. It'll be interesting to see what happens actually because they've been very consistent in sticking with their core of trusted players but if he's going to hand over a healthy team whenever he does give it up then some of that core will need to make space for younger players coming in.

He didn't bowl at all at Headingley did he?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

He didn't bowl at all at Headingley did he?

No I don't think so. He's been happy to take a back seat in the bowling for a while tbf and only bring himself on when really necessary, which I don't think it ever was in that game. So there's not really any way of knowing if he would have been able to if the situation had called on it. I think it's pretty clear he's finding it harder though which is why I think in future it might be two over spells here and there rather than the long spells he has done.

 

[kabbes]

The captain needs to be a leader. Somebody who will run through walls for his team and inspires others to run through walls for him. Somebody who believes in others so hard that they can’t help but believe in themselves. It really takes the right person, and it’s not necessarily the person who is the best batsman or bowler. Cook and Root are arguably the best batsmen that England have ever had and both were dire captains — full of doubts, leaving gaps of belief within which acrimony fosters. Vaughan was much better in that regard, at least for those in his clique.

So who can follow Stokes? I’m not seeing anybody that is that person that people can believe in and be inspired by. My best hope is therefore in the young players that I don’t know much about as people, like Brook. Not because I think he’s a leader but only because I don’t know he’s not one. Otherwise, we’re screwed.

 

[planetgeli]

like Brook. Not because I think he’s a leader but only because I don’t know he’s not one. Otherwise, we’re screwed.

He captained the U18 and U19. He did really well (batting) on the U19 before being suspended for indiscipline/ill-discipline for the final game

But, y'know, he was young.

Mark Wood did describe him as 'simple' a few days ago.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not for England, but for other countries, young players have stepped up to become captain from almost nowhere. Graeme Smith for SA and Jason Holder for WI come to mind. Stephen Fleming became NZ captain aged 24.

But I agree that the list of players who should not be captain is longer than the list of those who could be. Pope? No. Duckett, probably not. Crawley??? Well after all, he is a Brearley tribute act opening the batting...

 

[kabbes]

I could potentially imagine Woakes as a leader but, of course, he can’t be guaranteed a game. He has a certain indefatigability though.