Operation pillar of cloud. Israeli assault on Gaza

[ska invita]

Not sure it really makes a diiference though (in regards to 'pillar of his position')...the position of no Palestinian state but Jordan is a pretty absolute one

 

[teqniq]

Yep. Obviously not exactly proper democracies in many senses of the word but then again neither is ours.

surely you jest

 

[SpineyNorman]

Yep. Obviously not exactly proper democracies in many senses of the word but then again neither is ours.

Sorry, the inverted commas might have been misleading - I wasn't disagreeing.

 

[elbows]

Sorry, the inverted commas might have been misleading - I wasn't disagreeing.

I dont think they were misleading, I was just saying the same thing but making the point explicitly.

 

[elbows]

Not sure it really makes a diiference though (in regards to 'pillar of his position')...the position of no Palestinian state but Jordan is a pretty absolute one

It doesnt destroy all his points, just one of them, one that Israel used to be able to bring up quite a bit. They can get by without it but when combined with other stuff such as the attempts by some Palestinian groups to move away from language couched in terms of the destruction of the Jewish state, which he was clearly trying to grapple with and negate way back at the time of that video, it starts to add up.

 

[elbows]

Explosion behind Anderson Cooper whilst he was on air an hour ago.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bomb-explodes-right-near-anderson-cooper-during-live-report-from-gaza/

 

[Deareg]

In case this has not already been posted.

http://www.map-uk.org/donate1/#.UKmBsWhUzEY.facebook

 

[Andrew Hertford]

In praise of geeks...

Anonymous have launched their own attack:
http://anonymousnews.blogs.ru/2012/...s-leaks-data-in-protest-against-gaza-attacks/

 

[Treacle Toes]

Well done Iceland. Not the first time they've condemned Israeli aggression.

@birgittaj Is this true? "Icelandic has just released a statement condemning Israel & considering severing diplomatic ties." #Gaza #iceland

@Tutini2 i wish it was true one of the political youth movements that made the statement i will ask foreign minister today if he supports it

Not true unfortuately but one of the youth movements have, yes.

 

[Balbi]

Explosion behind Anderson Cooper whilst he was on air an hour ago.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bomb-explodes-right-near-anderson-cooper-during-live-report-from-gaza/

Cooper.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Is Cooper the one who tweeted a pic of himself? A mature boy from space?

 

[teqniq]

so much for the precision bombing:

#Israel Haaretz newspaper quotes #IDF sources saying the family of 10 in #Gaza was killed because they hit the "wrong" house.

 

[Balbi]

Is Cooper the one who tweeted a pic of himself? A mature boy from space?

He's the one who was outed by some idiot. He's also a total fox

 

[not-bono-ever]

heartbreaking

cunts

 

[frogwoman]

just got forwardedthisfrom my localrabbi (he alsoincluded a piece from the israeli ambassador, but oh well)


"Most of us have biases burned into our hard drives. If our sympathies lie
with the Palestinians, we see Zionist aggression and charred Palestinian
babies. If our sympathies lie with Israel, we see terrified Israeli children
with 15 seconds to run to a bomb shelter every time the siren sounds
(According to one source, some 11,000 rockets in the last 4 years.). For all
too many of us, our sympathies are all encompassing and exclusive.
We see only Palestinian children or Israeli children.

Our message cannot be to ignore the rockets on our fellow Israelis.
However, when we hear "There would be no attacks on Gaza if there would be
no rockets on the Western Negev",
we must both join the demand that the rockets stop and remind our fellow
Israelis that we can best help ourselves
if we stop using our overwhelming power to make life miserable for most
Gazans.
With our greater power comes greater responsibility.

We have a right and responsibility to defend ourselves, but we cannot harm
civilians, even in the name of self defense.
The Talmudic sage Raba teaches that we can kill the person coming to kill
us, but cannot kill an innocent third person even to save our own life.
And, I can't help recalling the fact that not so long after the Gaza War,
the level of rocket fire returned to where it was before the war.
I can only sadly identify with the desire of my fellow Israelis for peace
and quiet, and repeat again,
"The sword comes into the world because of the suppression of justice and
the perversion of justice, and those who misinterpret Torah."

In this week's Torah portion, Esau is driven into a murderous rage after
Jacob cheats him yet again. Jacob flees for his life, and will live in exile
for twenty years. Both feel themselves to be the victims. In two weeks, we
will read that two older and wiser men will find God in each other."
May that day come soon....

 

[Grandma Death]

Have the israelis wheeled out mark regov yet? It's not a proper war unless we have a mark regov v Jon snow tussle.

 

[teqniq]

Have the israelis wheeled out mark regov yet? It's not a proper war unless we have a mark regov v Jon snow tussle.

Yes, though I have avoided seeing him myself someone mentioned him upthread.

 

[dylans]

Despite the terrible cost to Gazan's Hamas are actually in a strong position here. There is clearly pressure on Israel not to launch a ground invasion and clearly they are only too aware that a ground invasion will not destroy Hamas. It didn't in 2008. In fact they emerged stronger and more defiant than ever. Hamas are demanding something very reasonable in exchange for a ceasefire. They are demanding a long term end to Israeli airstrikes and assassinations. This is perfectly reasonable. It amounts to "you don't attack us and we won't attack you" Yet it is being treated as an impossible demand by Israel. Israel demand for an end to rocket attacks without them conceding a thing is simply a demnd for surrender. It is a testimony to the resistances strength and ability to withstand Israeli attack and the strength of their support amongst the population that they can make any demands at all in the face of this horrific assault but Hamas know that ending rocket attacks in exchange for the Israelis merely ending the current bombardment will just mean another assault whenever Israel sees a target.

Hamas are also demanding an end to the siege. Again a perfectly reasonable demand. I doubt this will be conceded however simply because Israel will probably be able to get Hamas agreement to end rocket attacks simply on the basis of a deal to end its own assaults. Rocket attacks are, after all a response to Israeli attacks.

Israel look strong but really they aren't. The shocking, absolutely appalling images of yesterdays baby killings has shot around the Arab world and galvanised support for Gaza and despite the blatant support shown from Western governments, people are not buying the propaganda anymore. Not in the Arab world and not in Europe either. The US is a different matter entirely.

Israel's problem is that they are dealing with a different reality both in the Arab world and in Gaza itself. In Gaza the resistance now have better weapons, weapons that can make life very unpleasant for a lot of Israelis. This is new and Hamas would be mad to give that up for anything and in fact they wont. Hamas do not have to change the status quo as far as that is concerned. They just have to hang on to what they have got and whatever supply lines they have established. Israel know there is no way of negotiating the Farj 5s away. They are also probably secretly aware that they won't get them even in a ground assault. Despite cast lead in 2008, they couldn't even find their kidnapped soldier. Shalit.

So Israel have a choice. They can agree to Hamas demand for a long term ceasefire on both sides or they can keep pounding away in the hope of forcing a resistance surrender, something that is not going to happen or they can go in.

If they accept the first option, agree to Hamas first condition for a ceasefire then this is a symbolic victory for Hamas. They have shown that they can hurt Israel and use that leverage to win something tangible. A deal to end targetted assassinations and air assaults would be a fantastic relief for the people of Gaza.

If they go for the second and keep bombing then they will run out of targets. All indications are they are running out of targets now which is why they are blowing up houses full of kids. Such atrocities are likely to continue and that is not good for Israel's image either. The 3rd option of an invasion will piss of Egypt, Turkey, the whole Arab world, drown Gaza in blood and still not destroy Hamas. It will however give Israel something to show to their population to make them look tough and deny Hamas the opportunity of claiming any kind of victory. The irony is, even if they do launch a ground attack. Hamas will still be standing after it and the Israelis may well quietly accept a long term ceasefire agreement anyway.

Because of all the above. I still believe a ground assault is the most likely outcome.

 

[rekil]

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
Does anyone have pets who are freaking out because of the rocket sirens? If so, please contact me today for a story. Thanks! #jpost

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
@Dia_Batal I am happy to interview Gazans whose pets are freaking out from Israeli fire. We have someone today talking to Gazan civils

 

[rekil]

That is mental.

FFS

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
@This_Fn_Guy How is it trumping civilians if we are covering humans AND animals from BOTH sides?

 

[Balbi]

Has anyone met their true love while sheltering from rockets in Israel? Did you pull the one for you out from the wreckage of a family home in Gaza? Then get in touch with Heatseeking Magazine, Tel-Aviv on 08 17171 1616 or loveandwar@heatseeker.is.rael

 

[uk benzo]

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
Does anyone have pets who are freaking out because of the rocket sirens? If so, please contact me today for a story. Thanks! #jpost

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
@Dia_Batal I am happy to interview Gazans whose pets are freaking out from Israeli fire. We have someone today talking to Gazan civils

I wonder if she'd like to speak to some Palestinian kids freaking out because they have had their entire families wiped out by the hand of the fascist Israeli government?

 

[Balbi]

Interesting how the Chinese statement is portrayed as conceievably having a dual meaning which is negative to Palestine by the guardian, whereas Obama's statement about no nation withstanding missile attacks was viewed as solidly pro-Israeli.

China has said it is "extremely concerned" about Israel's bombing of Gaza, which it characterises as "over-use of force" – although that could conceivably also be a reference to Palestinian rocket attacks on Israeli civilians. Hua Chunying, a foreign ministry spokeswoman, said:

China is extremely concerned about Israel's continued large-scale military operations towards the Gaza Strip. We condemn the over-use of force causing deaths and injuries amongst innocent ordinary people.
China supports Arab countries' position on the Palestine issue, and appreciates and supports the proactive efforts of Egypt and other countries and the Arab League to ameliorate the present situation.
We strongly urge relevant parties, especially Israel, to maintain maximum restraint and cease fire as soon as possible, to avoid any actions which may exacerbate the situation or raise tensions.

​

 

[elbows]

Israel look strong but really they aren't. The shocking, absolutely appalling images of yesterdays baby killings has shot around the Arab world and galvanised support for Gaza and despite the blatant support shown from Western governments, people are not buying the propaganda anymore. Not in the Arab world and not in Europe either. The US is a different matter entirely.

I think we've seen this pattern before, isnt it what usually happens? Israel start an attack and the initial media coverage casts them in the victim role. Then as the Palestinian death toll mounts, media coverage and to a more limited extent European government rhetoric starts to shift. Israel carries on well beyond the point where they've lost the wider propaganda battle, but eventually they have to call it a day.

 

[nino_savatte]

Have the israelis wheeled out mark regov yet? It's not a proper war unless we have a mark regov v Jon snow tussle.

Avital Liebovitch (aka Major Bombshell) has also been doing the rounds.

 

[teqniq]

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
Does anyone have pets who are freaking out because of the rocket sirens? If so, please contact me today for a story. Thanks! #jpost

Sharon Udasin ‏@sharonudasin
@Dia_Batal I am happy to interview Gazans whose pets are freaking out from Israeli fire. We have someone today talking to Gazan civils

I too have just been reading this. I don't know which is worse a) that she's asking in the first place or b) that she doen't see what's wrong with asking. It's like she's had some happily indifferent pill.

 

[Balbi]

The 'it's all journalism' school of thought.

 

[Balbi]

I say school, more like a nursery. The Penny one, she's a pupil.

 

[frogwoman]

I too have just been reading this. I don't know which is worse a) that she's asking in the first place or b) that she doen't see what's wrong with asking. It's like she's had some happily indifferent pill.

a lot of israelis genuinely have NO FUCKING CLUE. The media there is heavily censored and iirc has to be passed to the idf before publication...

 

[nino_savatte]

Check out this shit from Peter Mullen, who claims the BBC is biased towards the Palestinians

The BBC has been slipping up recently. No – I don’t mean to refer to unpleasant recollections of Savilegate and McAlpinegate. Let us just leave them conveniently on the Corporation’s CV. Instead I am wondering why it took the BBC so long to get into its full propaganda mode in its reporting of the war between Israel and Hamas. I don’t say there was ever anything distantly approaching even-handedness. You never get that with an ideological pressure group as committed to its own unassailable self-righteousness as the BBC. But at least for the first few days of the war there was the pretence of objectivity.
But true colours will inevitably show themselves and, sure enough, over the weekend the Corporation began to screen its horrific and heart-breaking accounts (with pictures, of course) of the Gazan children slaughtered by the nasty Israelis. What is never explained – because propaganda aims not to explain but to seduce – is the fact that Hamas stores its rockets and high explosives in schools and hospitals, and those leaders who are not so far up the pay scale that they are allotted their personal bunkers are obliged to live in their own houses with their families. And even the most meticulously targeted airstrike cannot distinguish between a terrorist and his three-year-old son when they are sitting in the same front room.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/p...ian-propaganda-machine-has-swung-into-action/

The Israeli Propaganda Ministry must be slipping him a few shekels to write this dreck. No?