Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Israel, Gaza and the propaganda war

The total number of daeths will be huge
Gaza
Area - comparative: slightly more than twice the size of Washington, DC

Form this ;https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/gz.html

Another "interesting" fact or two from this CIA document
Population: 1,500,202 (July 2008 est.)
Age structure: 0-14 years: 44.7% (male 343,988/female 325,856)
15-64 years: 52.7% (male 403,855/female 386,681)
65 years and over: 2.7% (male 16,196/female 23,626) (2008 est.)

Median age: total: 17.2 years
male: 17 years
female: 17.4 years (2008 est.)

The Irsealis KNEW they'd be slaughtering plenty of kids - avaerage age 17
Only someone with no heart at all could defend this

So, simply by having lots of kids, you then neatly put yourself in a position whereby if anyone attacks you, even if provoked by your actions, they are in the wrong, just because you have lots of kids? Even if you have chosen to launch rockets from in amongst those kids homes in the first place?

I'd call that pretty cynical......

Giles..
 
So, simply by having lots of kids, you then neatly put yourself in a position whereby if anyone attacks you, even if provoked by your actions, they are in the wrong, just because you have lots of kids? Even if you have chosen to launch rockets from in amongst those kids homes in the first place?

I'd call that pretty cynical......

Giles..
Yep, that's why Palestinians have children. They really are that evil

And you're not the thickest poster on Urban

And I'm knitting an elephant
 
Where else is there in Gaza? Just how far can you get from a home?

Exactly.

So, given this, maybe launching rockets into the country next door day after day to see if you can provoke a response isn't a very good idea?

Giles..
 
So, given this, maybe launching rockets into the country next door day after day to see if you can provoke a response isn't a very good idea?
Why doesn't this apply equally to Israel?

And as for siting military operations amongst civilians:
In Shajaiyeh, east of Gaza City, Israeli troops seized control of three apartment blocks and set up gun positions on the rooftops. Residents were locked in their homes and soldiers confiscated their mobile phones, neighbours said.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/06/gaza-israel-palestinians
 
Those Israelis in Sderot and a few other areas, who have been subjected to rocket attacks (most of Israel remains out of range of these weapon), can at least find some place of safety, or move to other areas within Israel. The Palestinian civilians in Gaza have no such options.
 
So, simply by having lots of kids, you then neatly put yourself in a position whereby if anyone attacks you, even if provoked by your actions, they are in the wrong, just because you have lots of kids? Even if you have chosen to launch rockets from in amongst those kids homes in the first place?

I'd call that pretty cynical......

Giles..

Ah Giles, I see all that special assistance in getting you to the point of reading was a bit of a waste. You forgot this bit:
Area - comparative: slightly more than twice the size of Washington, DC
ie, a VERY small area.
If you'd looked at the link - I picked a CIA doc as NO ONE could claim it was somehow Palestinian propoganda, you will see that 50% of Gaza is URBAN - thats how you pack so many people into a small space.
It also means that putting your military stuff away from civilian centres is difficult to say the least
It does seem odd that Menachin Begin could boast of how he fooled the Britsh by hiding in various civilian places, that he had guns and explosives stashed in houses, gardens, etc and somehow the Isreali govt act all shocked when anyone else is forced to do the same.
They knew up front that they were going to kill hundreds, if not thousands of people. I note our Govt takes a rather tough line with Mugabe when he beats peole up and sits back as his people die of cholera, calling for sanctions and international action, but are curiously silent if its Israel handing out the shit.
Maybe we need some White Farmers in there to El Gordo juices flowing, as it is, he sees only dead brown people and doesn't give a pair of flying monkey fucks

Edited to add: Lets hope you have not been able to breed riotously, I should hate to think of the collateral damage that could be inflcited when you obnoxious manner provokes a neighbour into giving you a bloody nose. I suspect if your style in real life mirrors in any way that you display on here, it wont be long coming. I should condemn such an action by the way though I would understand the reasons:D:D
 
something odd happening here:

The Times story from yesterday said:
Charles Heyman, a military expert and former major in the British Army, said: “If white phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague. White phosphorus is also a terror weapon. The descending blobs of phosphorus will burn when in contact with skin.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5447590.ece

I'm sure that yesterday the phrase "could be a war crime" appeared in this story.
[Still looking for an archived copy]

Daily Mail's story yesterday said:
British experts said that if white phosphorus had been used in an area as densely populated as Gaza then Israel might have committed a war crime.

'If phosphorus was deliberately fired at a crowd of people someone would end up in The Hague,' Charles Heyman, a former major in the British Army, told the Times.

All completely missing from today's version of yesterday's story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...a-terror-Israel-defies-demands-ceasefire.html
 
You can't accuse people of War Crimes in Gaza. That raises all sorts of uncomfortable questions about the extent of the Israeli state and the existence of the Palestinian one.

Has anyone reported it as an 'invasion of Gaza/Palestine'? I've heard lots of 'IDF have entered Gaza', but nothing on it being between two nations.

It's as if it's being viewed as sending 2 Para into East London to deal with fash.

:eek:
 
I really dont have a dog in this fight and try to see both sides.

But the propaganda is so thick in the air one can only conclude it is deliberate at some level.

Israeli spokespeople easily outnumber palestinians. The use of DU and other weapons utterly un neccessary for dealing with rudimentary rocket attacks goes unmentioned, unscrutinised.

EVERY mainstream piece mentions the rocket attacks. These have killed very few Israelis in years, too many but few nonetheless. the mainstream mentions the attacks not the small casualties. When it is this consistent it can only be deliberate and co ordinated.

This is as bad or even worse than the Iraq war lies.

Aside from the horror and wanton genocide / war crimes I think there is probably some big political calculation going on behind the scense, not just for Israels elections but for The Obama takeover.

It is very possible that Cheney and Co. greenlighted the slaughter, Obama will come in and maybe things will scale down. Everyone wins. Israel gets to be hard bullies, Obama gets to look good from day 1. We shall see.
 
And on the anti-propaganda side of the war:

Oxford historian Avi Shlaim mutters "oy, veh, got to be done", rolls up his sleeves and tells it like it is:

Avi Schlaim said:
...

This brief review of Israel's record over the past four decades makes it difficult to resist the conclusion that it has become a rogue state with "an utterly unscrupulous set of leaders". A rogue state habitually violates international law, possesses weapons of mass destruction and practises terrorism - the use of violence against civilians for political purposes. Israel fulfils all of these three criteria; the cap fits and it must wear it. Israel's real aim is not peaceful coexistence with its Palestinian neighbours but military domination. It keeps compounding the mistakes of the past with new and more disastrous ones. Politicians, like everyone else, are of course free to repeat the lies and mistakes of the past. But it is not mandatory to do so.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/gaza-israel-palestine


Hardly ever does the Guardian publish anything every word of which is true.

My main quibble is that he didn't find space to point out that the state of Israel's objective is to avoid a peace.
 
It's also dated 'December 5, 2008'.

The Mail changes its stories all the time, not noticed the Times doing it much before.

There is something to be said for newspapers and having something 'solid' in print. There is also something to be said for news organisations to keep records of what was changed and when on news stories, and keep old versions of reports. The BBC changes them al the time and despite their massive budget have no record of what they were.

1984 again - but that's another thread....
 
And on the anti-propaganda side of the war:

Oxford historian Avi Shlaim mutters "oy, veh, got to be done", rolls up his sleeves and tells it like it is:




Hardly ever does the Guardian publish anything every word of which is true.

My main quibble is that he didn't find space to point out that the state of Israel's objective is to avoid a peace.


a fantastic article.
 
Let's not lose sight of the topic - which is about the Israeli propaganda war designed to misrepresent the situation. I'm hearing that this is very bad in USA where a Likud-view is being presented to American tv viewers/radio listeners.

The approach of US mainstream media with regards to any international crisis is to present it in a Manichaen fashion: Pals bad/Israelis good. As far as they're concerned, the history of the conflict only went back as far as Xmas. In many ways, it demonstrates the contempt the producers have for their audiences. Treating them as...well, children with short attention spans.
 
Anyone just see Meir Shitreet on Newsnight?

Such indifference to deaths of innocent children, he lives up to his name.

Aye, I was struck by his lack of humanity. It is clear that the Israeli government - of whatever stripe - is hopelessly linked to fascist-style policies of ethnic purity, militarism and expansionism.
 
Ah Giles, I see all that special assistance in getting you to the point of reading was a bit of a waste. You forgot this bit:
Area - comparative: slightly more than twice the size of Washington, DC
ie, a VERY small area.
If you'd looked at the link - I picked a CIA doc as NO ONE could claim it was somehow Palestinian propoganda, you will see that 50% of Gaza is URBAN - thats how you pack so many people into a small space.
It also means that putting your military stuff away from civilian centres is difficult to say the least
It does seem odd that Menachin Begin could boast of how he fooled the Britsh by hiding in various civilian places, that he had guns and explosives stashed in houses, gardens, etc and somehow the Isreali govt act all shocked when anyone else is forced to do the same.
They knew up front that they were going to kill hundreds, if not thousands of people. I note our Govt takes a rather tough line with Mugabe when he beats peole up and sits back as his people die of cholera, calling for sanctions and international action, but are curiously silent if its Israel handing out the shit.
Maybe we need some White Farmers in there to El Gordo juices flowing, as it is, he sees only dead brown people and doesn't give a pair of flying monkey fucks

Edited to add: Lets hope you have not been able to breed riotously, I should hate to think of the collateral damage that could be inflcited when you obnoxious manner provokes a neighbour into giving you a bloody nose. I suspect if your style in real life mirrors in any way that you display on here, it wont be long coming. I should condemn such an action by the way though I would understand the reasons:D:D

First, please stop with the ad-hom shit.

I am not disputing that Gaza is a small and populous place. Just pointing out, that given that, and knowing what Israel might do in the end, if you keep on firing missiles at them every day for months and months and months, I think it is a bit much to then throw up your hands in horror because your opponent is hitting the same "civilian areas" that you use regularly to fire rockets from.

If you are going to fight hiding amongst and behind your own families, don't act surprised when they get caught up in the shit. Avoid this and fight like men, not terrorists.

And as far as I can see, the UK hasn't done much about Mugabe either, apart from tut-tut vaguely. White farmers or not.

Giles..
 
Avoid this and fight like men, not terrorists.
gaza-dead.jpg
 
Avoid this and fight like men, not terrorists.
Giles..

Yes, the only sporting way is to tackle the enemy irrespective of their overwhelming military advantage, nuclear weapons and blank cheque with the worlds only remaining superpower.
 
If you are going to fight hiding amongst and behind your own families, don't act surprised when they get caught up in the shit. Avoid this and fight like men, not terrorists.

You only have Israel's word for this (it also lied about its nuclear program).
 
Back
Top Bottom